England tour of South Africa

[mikesiva]

What a horrible day for South Africa. 106 for 10 off 66 overs is England-esque (except it would have been 36 overs for England, as they'd have been trying to hit their way out of trouble). England are, to put it bluntly, not a good side, but they're about to go 2-1 up away against South Africa, unless rain intervenes. England have done better in South Africa than anywhere else overseas over the years, it's true, but given the troubles in the England squad and how poor they have been for a while, this is a pretty bad situation for South Africa. Combine their hammering in India and dismal World Cup, and the talk of crisis doesn't seem overblown.

It's probably going to get worse too. They've lost three all-time talents in Steyn, de Villiers and Amla, a fourth very good if shy of all-time great in Morkel, and they're about to lose another great (and massively under-rated) bowler in Philander. Their batting is as weak as I've seen it since their readmission, and it's going to get worse as surely Faf can't stick around too much longer - he's over 35, the results are against him and he's on a dreadful run of form (that 36 was his highest score for 10 innings).

That's going to leave SA with only two world class players in Rabada and de Kock. The future doesn't look pretty.

Of course they could still hold out here if rain comes, and never underestimate England's ability to collapse and hand the series away. Although that said, the most likely candidate to initiate a collapse would be Rabada, and he won't be there in Jo'burg...

Agreed...South Africa are in a decline similar to that experienced by the Windies in the late 1990s. Their glory days are over.

They need to accept, as we did in the West Indies, that the new benchmark for batting is to get batsmen who can average 30 or more in Test cricket. The mediocre-to-poor performances of Malan, RvdD and Hamza shows that there's no new AB de Villiers waiting in domestic cricket.

Interestingly, their three reserves - Bavuma, Petersen and Hendricks - have been instructed not to play any FC cricket scheduled for today. I wonder if that indicates changes for the final Test....

Maharaj gets his half-century!

He's not frightened of Root, it seems. The top order could take lessons from him. Instead, van der Dussen made Root look like Murali!

[Arthur Crabtree]

Hundred partnership!

Not sure VDD has had a bad series Mike. He's batted a lot of balls, more than anyone in the side )only SIbley and Denley more for England) in a line up that has blocked for a lot of the series. Malan is a newcomer. Both these average around 30, which is your benchmark, and are new to international cricket.

[Arthur Crabtree]

99 partnership. Huge win for England.. Well done to them.

I'm not sure SA cricket is as weak as it appears to be. If they had the Kolpaks, they would be a better side. WI didn't suffer from that as much at a time which would be difficult anyway.

[bigfluffylemon]

What a shambles. Root going for a five-year rather than giving Wood and Broad the new ball at the last wicket pair. Poor.

[westoelad]

99 partnership. Huge win for England.. Well done to them.

I'm not sure SA cricket is as weak as it appears to be. If they had the Kolpaks, they would be a better side. WI didn't suffer from that as much at a time which would be difficult anyway.

Yeh but they haven't got their Kolpaks. That issue may well be resolved by Brexit but until the internal cricket politics is resolved it won't progress. Hopefully Smith and Boucher are strong enough characters to resolve it.

[yuppie]

As well as England have played, they should not be beating SA in SA by an innings.

Sure SA have lost some great players, but there must be something else wrong with SA cricket for this to happen.

Well played England

Really tough time to be an SA supporter at present.

[Durhamfootman]

Congrats to England. Comprehensive victory

this is interesting though..... from the match report

Back came England's quicks, and still the shots kept coming, as England were suckered into banging the ball in too short, and neglecting to target the stumps.

It might be blindingly obvious to everyone else, but I doubt they will ever learn

[Arthur Crabtree]

Last Test will be FDP's last game in SA. Will retire completely this year.

[bigfluffylemon]

Congrats to England. Comprehensive victory

this is interesting though..... from the match report

Back came England's quicks, and still the shots kept coming, as England were suckered into banging the ball in too short, and neglecting to target the stumps.

It might be blindingly obvious to everyone else, but I doubt they will ever learn

Yeah, I saw that. Between Wood banging it in and Root selfishly seeking personal glory ahead of the team, they deserved to get tonked for the last wicket.

What made it worse was that Wood's delivery to get rid of Elgar was a beaut - fast and accurate, beat him for pace, bowled through the gate. If he can do that to an opener, why doesn't he do it to the tail?

[bigfluffylemon]

As well as England have played, they should not be beating SA in SA by an innings.

Sure SA have lost some great players, but there must be something else wrong with SA cricket for this to happen.

Well played England

Really tough time to be an SA supporter at present.

Last overseas innings win for England was 2011 in Sydney. Only the fifth innings win overseas this century (three were the 2010-11 Ashes, one in Durban 2009)
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ew=results

Prior to that, the last innings win overseas was 1997.

Impressive stuff, even if South Africa were somewhat architects of their own downfall.

[sussexpob]

[ IMHO, Bavuma must come back. Maybe drop Hamza who is totally out of his depth.

hey need to accept, as we did in the West Indies, that the new benchmark for batting is to get batsmen who can average 30 or more in Test cricket. The mediocre-to-poor performances of Malan, RvdD and Hamza shows that there's no new AB de Villiers waiting in domestic cricket.

Malan and Van Dussen both average a rounded decimal away from Bavuma, so I wonder what possible reasoning you could give to justify calling them mediocre and unworthy of another test after a sniff of an opportunity, while advocating they be replaced by someone who has proven over dozens of tests he can average no better than them. Bavuma also averages a mile away from the other two in his FC, and he is about the same age and has played in the same batting line up as Van Dussen all his career, so theyd have played the same teams on the same pitches, making the comparison of performance a little damning to Bavuma. Hamza's "out of depth average" is exactly what Bavuma has managed in tests (17 runs per innings) since 2018

Im sure there is an indepth and sensible argument for such wildly different opinions of almost exactly identical achievements, but until I have heard it, Ill just assume the more obvious conclusion that your judging it purely on the race of the players involved.

[Durhamfootman]

Congrats to England. Comprehensive victory

this is interesting though..... from the match report

Back came England's quicks, and still the shots kept coming, as England were suckered into banging the ball in too short, and neglecting to target the stumps.

It might be blindingly obvious to everyone else, but I doubt they will ever learn

Yeah, I saw that. Between Wood banging it in and Root selfishly seeking personal glory ahead of the team, they deserved to get tonked for the last wicket.

What made it worse was that Wood's delivery to get rid of Elgar was a beaut - fast and accurate, beat him for pace, bowled through the gate. If he can do that to an opener, why doesn't he do it to the tail?

trouble is they get told what to do. Certainly bowlers get the execution wrong sometimes, but when they start repeatedly bowling short it's because they are bowling to a plan. Remember when the batsmen were told by Bayleaf to go and assert their dominance over the bowling? Well this the bowling equivalent, where the short ball is supposed to dominate the batsmen. The batsmen kept getting rolled over for under a hundred and the bowlers get tonked around by the tail.

I'd like to blame the short ball barrage on Bayleaf as well, but I can't because they've been doing this for much longer than the 4 years of Bayleaf's tenure

[Arthur Crabtree]

Bowling short is their death overs bowling plan in ODIs, so easy to see why they do it when facing aggressive batting in Tests,

[Durhamfootman]

It didn't cost them in this test, thank goodness, but if there had been more rain around on the final day, that 99 run 10th wicket stand might have saved SA

[Arthur Crabtree]

Bavuma comes in for Hanza, which will make this thread more exciting than it might be in Joburg.

Otherwise, the sides have not been firmed up. This is what cricinfo thinks.

South Africa (possible): 1 Dean Elgar, 2 Pieter Malan, 3 Rassie van der Dussen, 4 Faf du Plessis (capt), 5 Temba Bavuma, 6 Quinton de Kock (wk), 7 Dwaine Pretorius/Andile Phehlukwayo, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Keshav Maharaj/Dane Paterson, 10 Beuran Hendricks, 11 Anrich Nortje

England (probable): 1 Dom Sibley, 2 Zak Crawley, 3 Joe Denly, 4 Joe Root (capt), 5 Ben Stokes, 6 Ollie Pope, 7 Jos Buttler (wk), 8 Sam Curran, 9 Mark Wood, 10 Jofra Archer, 11 Stuart Broad

But Vic Marks thinks Wood and Archer won't play in the same team, I think because of injury possibilities.