Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

A little surprised we don't have a second test thread yet, so I thought I'd better start one.

England are looking to bounce back from an entertaining first test that highlighted the continuing issues with their batting. James Anderson looks set to return, and maybe Ben Stokes as well, with Steven Finn and Jake Ball most likely to make way. Adil Rashid is also in the squad, as a potential replacement for Moeen Ali (I don't see two spinners playing in England, but it's not impossible - OT has favoured spinners in the past with its bounce, and the recent hot weather may be conducive to spin).

Pakistan are likely to be unchanged. Their batting also looks fragile, outside of the usually reliable Misbah, but they have a formidable bowling attack.

Old Trafford hasn't hosted a test since 2014, but has been a happy hunting ground for England who haven't lost here since 2001, winning 7 of 9 matches played in that time. That team who beat England in 2001? You've guessed it, Pakistan. But Pakistan's last visit here in 2006 was an ignominous thrashing - an innings defeat as Monty Panesar and Steve Harmison combined to take 19 wickets between them. Harmison's 11-76 was his best ever match performance and his last great performance in an England test match.

Being Manchester, there's always the risk of rain. The forecast currently suggests a few showers, particularly on Friday or Monday, but much cooler temperatures than the heatwave that's been sweeping the country.

My England XI would be: Cook, Hales, Root, Ballance, Vince, Bairstow (at 6), Stokes, Rashid, Woakes, Broad, Anderson

Spin has been playing a big part in county games these recent weeks and a number of teams have used two spinners so it's not out of the question England went that way. It is unlikely though and your team, except having Balance at 4, is highly probable.

I was at the game in 2001. I had to leave before the last session, which (I think) was the one where the umpire missed six or seven wicket taking no balls for Pakistan. Given the squad, I reckon I'd go with Anderson and Stokes/Rashid for Finn and Ball, the latter depending on conditions.

Good intro bfl.

Cook is the only England bat with an Old Trafford ton (two). Neither Anderson (17 from 5) or Broad (8 from 3) have great wicket taking records in Manchester, though their averages are fine. Anderson has no 5-fers, and Broad's few wickets includes one. Finn took six in his single match there, but it was versus Bangladesh in a heavy win.

Monty took 25 in 3, Swanny took 12 in 2.

People say OT isn't what it was, but given the figures, recent history suggests (including Harmi's success there) it looks like tall hit the pitch pace, and spin. Though we all remember the reverse swing in 05, and it should be dry this week.

England bowlers have had more wicket taking deliveries with no balls in the last year or so than I can remember. Mark Woods I think has had 2, Finn 1 and I think Stokes has transgressed also. It was good to see Woakes was well behind the line in this last test, let's hope it's his norm. The ICC instruction to the third umpire to give the bowler benefit of the doubt in close calls will not encourage bowlers to stop their bad habit of pressing that front foot rule.

Got to be time for England to look at someone besides Ali?

Rashid is an all rounder, and scarcely a front line spinner. He'll be useful in certain circumstances, but he won't definitely bowl his share of overs and will be expensive. Similar to Mo. Not sure if Cook's lack of faith in the spinner is part of the problem, or just that he is absolutely right to have no faith in them.

Got a feeling Ali will keep his place this time.

England will be reluctant to make too many changes and will already be making two to bring back Anderson & Stokes. Three changes may be seen as too much.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Rashid is an all rounder, and scarcely a front line spinner. He'll be useful in certain circumstances, but he won't definitely bowl his share of overs and will be expensive. Similar to Mo. Not sure if Cook's lack of faith in the spinner is part of the problem, or just that he is absolutely right to have no faith in them.

Are there any decent spinners in the county game at present?

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Cook is the only England bat with an Old Trafford ton (two). Neither Anderson (17 from 5) or Broad (8 from 3) have great wicket taking records in Manchester, though their averages are fine. Anderson has no 5-fers, and Broad's few wickets includes one. Finn took six in his single match there, but it was versus Bangladesh in a heavy win.

Monty took 25 in 3, Swanny took 12 in 2.

People say OT isn't what it was, but given the figures, recent history suggests (including Harmi's success there) it looks like tall hit the pitch pace, and spin. Though we all remember the reverse swing in 05, and it should be dry this week.

Anderson's bowling average for his 23 wickets at OT is 28.7 almost identical to his career average and his S/R of 46.9 is much better than his career S/R of 56.7. In 2014 v India Broad took 6 wickets in the first innings then got injured batting, he's only played 3 tests at OT.

Maybe, but the selectors don't think so. Remember Swann came into the England side without a huge amount of expectation and most were surprised by just how good he was. But England aren't interested to even try some other options. When Mo and Rashid did so badly in UAE http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series it could have motivated them to abandon their dogma, but it didn't. They even called up Samit Patel to bowl spin in that series.

Even if Old Trafford looks like it did in 1956, picking Mo and Rashid together represents a big risk. It could be that Anderson, Broad and Woakes might have to do a huge amount of bowling if the spinners go for over 4 an over, as they did in UAE.

Naming a squad of 14 for a home test is ver odd and is rather like washing your dirty washing in public as it clearly brings into focus the internal disagreement over selection for the last test. Cook seems to have wanted Anderson and Bayliss Anderson and Stokes whilst the selectors wanted Balance. They've solved the problem by choosing them all and throwing in Rashid for good measure.

hopeforthebest wrote:

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Cook is the only England bat with an Old Trafford ton (two). Neither Anderson (17 from 5) or Broad (8 from 3) have great wicket taking records in Manchester, though their averages are fine. Anderson has no 5-fers, and Broad's few wickets includes one. Finn took six in his single match there, but it was versus Bangladesh in a heavy win.

Monty took 25 in 3, Swanny took 12 in 2.

People say OT isn't what it was, but given the figures, recent history suggests (including Harmi's success there) it looks like tall hit the pitch pace, and spin. Though we all remember the reverse swing in 05, and it should be dry this week.

Anderson's bowling average for his 23 wickets at OT is 28.7 almost identical to his career average and his S/R of 46.9 is much better than his career S/R of 56.7. In 2014 v India Broad took 6 wickets in the first innings then got injured batting, he's only played 3 tests at OT.

I said their averages are fine. I'm not trying to imply they have bombed at OT, just that they don't have a record of a great deal of success there. Anderson having his career average for a ground in the UK is slightly disappointing, because his record at home is so much better than away from home.

Just whimsically, Anderson took his first 5-fer at Headingley this year at the eighth attempt, and also averages his career average there. He has wickets at Durham against weaker sides, but only took 2-138 versus Australia in 41 overs (ok, he averages 18 there including against SL, WI and Zim). But curious that such a champion home bowler has had so few of his best days in the homiest of conditions, the north of England.

hopeforthebest wrote:Naming a squad of 14 for a home test is ver odd and is rather like washing your dirty washing in public as it clearly brings into focus the internal disagreement over selection for the last test. Cook seems to have wanted Anderson and Bayliss Anderson and Stokes whilst the selectors wanted Balance. They've solved the problem by choosing them all and throwing in Rashid for good measure.

Could have added Buttler, who Bayliss is reported to have preferred.