Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:May have been discussed already, but I note that England haven't had a test stumping since 2012. Guess we haven't had a decent keeper since then either as Prior was getting towards the end of his career.

Is that true? An amazing statistic if correct. Especially as opposing batsmen love to tuck into Moeen Ali by coming half way down the wicket.

yep it is true, also Ali been dropped/miss chances the most.

A lot has been written about the missed keeping opportunities having an influence on Bairstows test career but nothing about the influence the dropped catch from Amla might have on the career of Woakes. It's likely that Woakes could end this game wicketless which on Anderson's return will almost certainly mean he will be dropped, indeed may not play again in this series.
So a dropped catch that probably will have little bearing on the result of this game may have far reaching consequences for Woakes.

hopeforthebest wrote:A lot has been written about the missed keeping opportunities having an influence on Bairstows test career but nothing about the influence the dropped catch from Amla might have on the career of Woakes. It's likely that Woakes could end this game wicketless which on Anderson's return will almost certainly mean he will be dropped, indeed may not play again in this series.
So a dropped catch that probably will have little bearing on the result of this game may have far reaching consequences for Woakes.

But is Woakes really anything more than a good county cricketer?

He doesn't look like he can raise his game to figure long term in the test tanks. Admittedly he has bowled well and hasn't had the best of luck, but I'm yet to be convinced.

budgetmeansbudget wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:A lot has been written about the missed keeping opportunities having an influence on Bairstows test career but nothing about the influence the dropped catch from Amla might have on the career of Woakes. It's likely that Woakes could end this game wicketless which on Anderson's return will almost certainly mean he will be dropped, indeed may not play again in this series.
So a dropped catch that probably will have little bearing on the result of this game may have far reaching consequences for Woakes.

But is Woakes really anything more than a good county cricketer?

He doesn't look like he can raise his game to figure long term in the test tanks. Admittedly he has bowled well and hasn't had the best of luck, but I'm yet to be convinced.

I'm sure many see it that way but what we don't know how taking Amla's wicket with his 11th delivery might have inspired him to do. We see time and time again that an early wicket gets a bowler on a roll, Broad is a great example of that. Later this year the selectors won't remember that dropped catch, just that he failed to take wickets.
If that drop was off Broad or Finn it would be of little consequence because they have test wickets to their names and Stokes is inked into the team for the next 5 years whatever he does.

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:May have been discussed already, but I note that England haven't had a test stumping since 2012. Guess we haven't had a decent keeper since then either as Prior was getting towards the end of his career.

Is that true? An amazing statistic if correct. Especially as opposing batsmen love to tuck into Moeen Ali by coming half way down the wicket.

The more relevant statistic would be how many stumping chances have been missed in that period. Ironically Paul Farbrace was reputedly an exceptional wicketkeeper whose 1st class career was curtailed because of his lack of batting skills. Time for him to justify his position.

westoelad wrote:

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:May have been discussed already, but I note that England haven't had a test stumping since 2012. Guess we haven't had a decent keeper since then either as Prior was getting towards the end of his career.

Is that true? An amazing statistic if correct. Especially as opposing batsmen love to tuck into Moeen Ali by coming half way down the wicket.

The more relevant statistic would be how many stumping chances have been missed in that period. Ironically Paul Farbrace was reputedly an exceptional wicketkeeper whose 1st class career was curtailed because of his lack of batting skills. Time for him to justify his position.

Well bairstows missed stumping of Hafeez off rashid cost us a test match in the UAE

also the stumping and dropped catches that allowed west Indies to win in April.

Not even good keepers take all stumpings, or even nearly all stumpings. And I can't remember a very good English keeper standing up in Tests since the days of Knott and Taylor. Because it's Bairstow and Buttler (who I think are about as good as each other) every miss is blamed on them for its game changing potential. But no one takes nearly them all.

Obviously, there's room for improvement...

Missed dismissals could be fairly described by what economists call "the law of unintended consequences".

Buttler a better keeper.

Foster was probably the last good or great keeper England had close to the stumps.

quite sad he didn't play much for england.

to be fair to him, from such a wide angle that ball turned an absolute mile and he would have been completely blind for the last part of the balls flight

but it did look as though he was standing to far over and seems to have no footwork whatsover

we have to hope that he does a matt prior and turns himself into a very good keeper

backfootpunch wrote:to be fair to him, from such a wide angle that ball turned an absolute mile and he would have been completely blind for the last part of the balls flight

but it did look as though he was standing to far over and seems to have no footwork whatsover

we have to hope that he does a matt prior and turns himself into a very good keeper

Do we? What about Buttler?

365notout wrote:

backfootpunch wrote:to be fair to him, from such a wide angle that ball turned an absolute mile and he would have been completely blind for the last part of the balls flight

but it did look as though he was standing to far over and seems to have no footwork whatsover

we have to hope that he does a matt prior and turns himself into a very good keeper

Do we? What about Buttler?

it was fairly clearly that keeping in all 3 formats was too much for jos, he looked exhausted

for now bairstow in tests and buttler in the shorter forms might be the best option

jos is so important in ODI cricket im not sure it would be a bad thing is he focused on that

I've heard a few keepers say that it was a tough chance to Bairstow as the ball went between bat and pad, meaning you see it late. And also that non-specialist keepers tend to follow the bat not the ball (the latter being much harder to do), therefore they don't expect the batsman to miss. There's a lot to process in a very short space of time, meaning that you don't actually process it's been missed/edged until after it's hit your gloves. As a non-keeper, it's interesting to hear their perspectives.

Still, a shame that the chance went down.

I also noted earlier during the Sky feature on the under 19s that Michael Bates (now retired from playing professionally?) was doing a play-and-miss drill with the keepers. I'm sure Bairstow and Buttler do a similar practice, but a bit more practice obviously needed!