England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby mikesiva » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:15 am

Jordan has also shown he can bowl well in the Caribbean, taking quite a few wickets for Barbados.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

The problem a number of England pacers have is adjusting to bowling in conditions different from English ones.

It does seem that although Gayle has not retired, he won't be playing in this Test series:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket ... 53945.html

"Definitely want to play the T20 World Cup next year for West Indies, there's no doubt about that," Gayle told ESPNcricinfo. "I've got a few concerns and a few injury [cases] to try and solve. I'll give myself some time and hopefully look back at it and see how well I can actually progress for West Indies cricket at this point in time. I'm actually out of the Test series, the back won't hold up for that format at this point in time. But I haven't retired from any format as yet. As I go on I will keep informing WICB about my progress in the future with West Indies cricket."
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby westoelad » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:16 am

Durhamfootman wrote:
Slipstream wrote:Think Jordan will be ahead of Plunkett even though Jordan was a replacement for Plunkett last summer. He was the one who got the central contract and also has more experience bowling in West Indies. Then I worry about him sweating so much that we can't get the ball to reverse-swing.

I think you might be right, too

I'd actually like to see them both play, and drop Broad.

His place must be under scrutiny particularly as he now can't bat.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby rich1uk » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:48 am

westoelad wrote:
Durhamfootman wrote:
Slipstream wrote:Think Jordan will be ahead of Plunkett even though Jordan was a replacement for Plunkett last summer. He was the one who got the central contract and also has more experience bowling in West Indies. Then I worry about him sweating so much that we can't get the ball to reverse-swing.

I think you might be right, too

I'd actually like to see them both play, and drop Broad.

His place must be under scrutiny particularly as he now can't bat.


i'd probably change "can't bat" to "afraid to bat"

even before he took that bad hit to the face last summer he had developed a bad habit of backing away and exposing his stumps, that's just been exacerbated now
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:55 am

Broad was England's best bowler in the back to back Ashes, and easily ahead of those in support of he and Anderson last summer. His recent Test record is very good, and his being one of the few players to stand up to the Aussies in the whitewash means a lot more than the softer games since then. Unless there are concerns over his recovery from operation, surely he's one of the first names down. Can't take into account his batting anymore though.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:04 pm

Since the start of 2013.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Broad's record throughout his career has been almost exactly the same as Anderson's. Yet Broad is seen as an irritating, effete liability, and some see Anderson as being as good as Dale Steyn.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby rich1uk » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:11 pm

I like broad as a bowler , always defended his selection

I do worry about his mindset coming out to bat now however

I know we shouldn't be picking bowlers based on batting ability but they do need to be trusted to do a job for the team if they need to bat out a few overs to save a game or win a game and atm I don't think he can be. its not about ability here its about application and I think its unacceptable for a professional cricketer to be basically bottling it when he comes out to bat.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:14 pm

There's a long history of windy bowlers. Tufnell, Malcolm for instance.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:15 pm

If he wasn't so clearly deserving of selection on bowling merit, the batting would matter more.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby rich1uk » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:16 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:There's a long history of windy bowlers. Tufnell, Malcolm for instance.


they didn't have anywhere near the ability as a batsman broad does however
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby westoelad » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:25 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:If he wasn't so clearly deserving of selection on bowling merit, the batting would matter more.

It is unclear as yet if he is the still the bowler he was before surgery- his ability pre-injury was unquestioned.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:51 pm

Of course. But he's been playing for two years with a heel problem that he will always have. He's spent his career coming back from injury. And still been one of England's leading bowlers. So we'll see.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:54 pm

I wouldn't normally question the inclusion of Broad. Even when he is going through a lean patch, a sudden match winning bolt from the blue can never be ruled out, but his white ball performances over the WC were particularly poor, bordering on unacceptable, and leads me to question whether he's a bit shot atm. I'd leave him out, let him play for Notts and see if he looks ready for the Aussies in the summer.

I don't really buy into the 'got to pick him cos he was good 18 months ago' argument. He's seemed well short of his best for some time now, and doubtless some will show me some stats that suggest he has been better than that, but stats also suggest that Ian Bell had a pretty decent world cup and that isn't the case either
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:00 pm

Broad has never done well for Notts, so he won't prove anything there. He's been poor in ODIs for a couple of years, and maintained his Test performances. I'm not against resting players. But if Broad is in the squad, he deserves a place. The alternatives aren't that compelling. Even with Broad and Anderson in the side, there will be room for other candidates to make a better claim. That didn't happen last summer, even with Moeen allowing two other fast bowling options.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:13 pm

he normally only plays one match a year for Notts, though, as a bit of a loosener for whoever is touring that year.

hey.... England will play him, won't drop him, will stick with him through thick and thin, and will play him into the ground, unless he suddenly has a nervous breakdown and can't pick up a bat any more, because he's one of those golden players for whom normal rules don't apply, so we'll have to hope that he does well in the caribbean, and comes back for the NZ tour in fine fettle.
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Re: England tour of the Caribbean 2015, April 13-May 5

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:22 pm

Sure, if he does poorly, drop him. If he'd benefit from a rest, rest him. While he wasn't at his best last summer, he still took his wickets, and turned in a match winning performance in Manchester. One day, the accumulation of injuries will prove too much. But at 28, equally, he could be entering his prime.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Those stats you wanted. Last three series, including the whitewash.
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