The Ashes 5th Test. The Oval. August 20-24.

[rich1uk]

Strangely people far more knowledgeable and better qualified rate Bell highly.

2012 calendar year - averaged 33
2013 calendar year - averaged 41 (and this is the year people keep using to remind us how good he is)
2014 calendar year - averaged 36
2015 calendar year - averages 24

overall for the 4 year period - 34

do you actually think those sort of figures are anything more than average, pun intended ?

people's opinions are subjective

cold hard figures are not

[hopeforthebest]

Strangely people far more knowledgeable and better qualified rate Bell highly.

2012 calendar year - averaged 33
2013 calendar year - averaged 41 (and this is the year people keep using to remind us how good he is)
2014 calendar year - averaged 36
2015 calendar year - averages 24

overall for the 4 year period - 34

do you actually think those sort of figures are anything more than average, pun intended ?

people's opinions are subjective

cold hard figures are not

You're obviously an average man.

[rich1uk]

Strangely people far more knowledgeable and better qualified rate Bell highly.

2012 calendar year - averaged 33
2013 calendar year - averaged 41 (and this is the year people keep using to remind us how good he is)
2014 calendar year - averaged 36
2015 calendar year - averages 24

overall for the 4 year period - 34

do you actually think those sort of figures are anything more than average, pun intended ?

people's opinions are subjective

cold hard figures are not

You're obviously an average man.

no I am someone who expects more from a member of the England team than bell has quite obviously been contributing

if you want to settle for mediocrity then that's your call

[sussexpob]

You're obviously an average man.

Averages don't even tell the full story with Bell though. Take Bangladesh away from his record, who he averages 158 against, and his yearly performance only leaves one year in 2011 that stands out as truly good, if we ignore the one innings he played in 2004 and got 70.

In 2011, he scored a few 100's, but in what situations?

Sydney - Batting at 7 when 3 people got hundreds in a 644 all out.... series already over.
The Oval v India - 235 (KP nearly scored a 200 too) series already decided.
119* at Southampton - Rain had put pay to Sri Lanka winning the match and drawing the series, not much pressure.
159 at Notts v India - He was run out fairly midway in that innings but was given a reprieve through good will to continue.
Cardiff v Sri Lanka - Trott and Cook had scored 340 runs between them, and by the time Bell got in, the rain had for all intense and purposes eliminated any chance of a result. England were left with a session and a lead of a 100 to win the match. Fair to say the intensity in that innings was pretty low from the bowlers as everyone was resigned to the draw, barring the miracle that followed.

His year by year averages excluding Bangladesh games.

2005 - 30
2006 - 41
2007 - 40
2008 - 37
2009 - 31
2010 - 47 (Dropped for the English summer, so didn't play the full season)
2011 - 118
2012 - 33
2013 - 34
2015 - 24

Considering the mark of good batsman in his era was 45, and a great batsman over 50, with a couple over 55, this is pretty poor.

Would those figures have got him a spot in most premier line ups?

[Gingerfinch]

In Bell's defense, we don't look to have too many options. Taylor and Hales stand out, with only one of those being a middle order player. I would bat Bell at five, and get Taylor in at three, with Ali opening, for the UAE.

[rich1uk]

In Bell's defense, we don't look to have too many options. Taylor and Hales stand out, with only one of those being a middle order player. I would bat Bell at five, and get Taylor in at three, with Ali opening, for the UAE.

sorry ginger but that argument only works for the short term

when someone has been averaging in the low 30s for as long as he has then you cant just keep picking him because he might not be quite as bad as a potential replacement , you have to give a new guy a chance to show he can make the step up

if we just keep settling for mediocrity then we never improve

[hopeforthebest]

You're obviously an average man.

Averages don't even tell the full story with Bell though. Take Bangladesh away from his record, who he averages 158 against, and his yearly performance only leaves one year in 2011 that stands out as truly good, if we ignore the one innings he played in 2004 and got 70.

In 2011, he scored a few 100's, but in what situations?

Sydney - Batting at 7 when 3 people got hundreds in a 644 all out.... series already over.
The Oval v India - 235 (KP nearly scored a 200 too) series already decided.
119* at Southampton - Rain had put pay to Sri Lanka winning the match and drawing the series, not much pressure.
159 at Notts v India - He was run out fairly midway in that innings but was given a reprieve through good will to continue.
Cardiff v Sri Lanka - Trott and Cook had scored 340 runs between them, and by the time Bell got in, the rain had for all intense and purposes eliminated any chance of a result. England were left with a session and a lead of a 100 to win the match. Fair to say the intensity in that innings was pretty low from the bowlers as everyone was resigned to the draw, barring the miracle that followed.

His year by year averages excluding Bangladesh games.

2005 - 30
2006 - 41
2007 - 40
2008 - 37
2009 - 31
2010 - 47 (Dropped for the English summer, so didn't play the full season)
2011 - 118
2012 - 33
2013 - 34
2015 - 24

Considering the mark of good batsman in his era was 45, and a great batsman over 50, with a couple over 55, this is pretty poor.

Would those figures have got him a spot in most premier line ups?

Get your facts right sussex he wasn't dropped in 2010, he broke a bone in his foot in an ODI and didn't play for England again until the ashes in Oz. He did however captain Warks in the final games of the Pro40 comp. leading them to a final win scoring a century. He also scored 2/3 centuries in the last 3 CC games wich saved Warks from relegation.

[sussexpob]

Get your facts right sussex he wasn't dropped in 2010, he broke a bone in his foot in an ODI and didn't play for England again until the ashes in Oz. He did however captain Warks in the final games of the Pro40 comp. leading them to a final win scoring a century. He also scored 2/3 centuries in the last 3 CC games wich saved Warks from relegation.

I went to the last test of that series at Lords. It was, by memory, the last day of August (a bank holiday Monday) that the test ended on. If Bell was not fit at this point, in fact a few weeks before, then there is no way in hell Bell would have played that many Championship games at the end of the season along with OD games. He was either not fit, or he was playing well before the test and wasn't picked. Ill let you decide on which one, either way, it cant be true.

I simply seen he only played away that summer and couldn't remember any extended injury he had. Its not really an important point in the grand scheme of things.

[Gingerfinch]

In Bell's defense, we don't look to have too many options. Taylor and Hales stand out, with only one of those being a middle order player. I would bat Bell at five, and get Taylor in at three, with Ali opening, for the UAE.

sorry ginger but that argument only works for the short term

when someone has been averaging in the low 30s for as long as he has then you cant just keep picking him because he might not be quite as bad as a potential replacement , you have to give a new guy a chance to show he can make the step up

if we just keep settling for mediocrity then we never improve

I agree that we can only keep him in for a certain period, but who has come in and done well, bar Root? Taylor has had a short exam, but Bairstow has had a number of tests, and still not convinced, as yet.

[backfootpunch]

It was 2009 that bell was dropped after the 51 all out debacle, then he came back in mid way through the ashes I think because KP Got injured

[hopeforthebest]

Get your facts right sussex he wasn't dropped in 2010, he broke a bone in his foot in an ODI and didn't play for England again until the ashes in Oz. He did however captain Warks in the final games of the Pro40 comp. leading them to a final win scoring a century. He also scored 2/3 centuries in the last 3 CC games wich saved Warks from relegation.

I went to the last test of that series at Lords. It was, by memory, the last day of August (a bank holiday Monday) that the test ended on. If Bell was not fit at this point, in fact a few weeks before, then there is no way in hell Bell would have played that many Championship games at the end of the season along with OD games. He was either not fit, or he was playing well before the test and wasn't picked. Ill let you decide on which one, either way, it cant be true.

I simply seen he only played away that summer and couldn't remember any extended injury he had. Its not really an important point in the grand scheme of things.

I was incorrect Bell didn't play the last 3 CC games for Warks he only played the last must win game at Hants Sept 13th when he scored a century. He the played the last couple of Pro40 games as captain scoring a century in the final v Somerset on Sept 18th. He broke his foot in an ODI v Bangladesh on 10th july and played 2 ODI games v Pakistan at the end of September.

Of course this isn't important to those who don't want facts of any kind to get in way of their opinion.

[rich1uk]

Of course this isn't important to those who don't want facts of any kind to get in way of their opinion.

oh the irony

[westoelad]

Get your facts right sussex he wasn't dropped in 2010, he broke a bone in his foot in an ODI and didn't play for England again until the ashes in Oz. He did however captain Warks in the final games of the Pro40 comp. leading them to a final win scoring a century. He also scored 2/3 centuries in the last 3 CC games wich saved Warks from relegation.

I went to the last test of that series at Lords. It was, by memory, the last day of August (a bank holiday Monday) that the test ended on. If Bell was not fit at this point, in fact a few weeks before, then there is no way in hell Bell would have played that many Championship games at the end of the season along with OD games. He was either not fit, or he was playing well before the test and wasn't picked. Ill let you decide on which one, either way, it cant be true.

I simply seen he only played away that summer and couldn't remember any extended injury he had. Its not really an important point in the grand scheme of things.

I was incorrect Bell didn't play the last 3 CC games for Warks he only played the last must win game at Hants Sept 13th when he scored a century. He the played the last couple of Pro40 games as captain scoring a century in the final v Somerset on Sept 18th. He broke his foot in an ODI v Bangladesh on 10th july and played 2 ODI games v Pakistan at the end of September.

Of course this isn't important to those who don't want facts of any kind to get in way of their opinion.

Nor the view of experts in that field. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story is the mantra of the modern journalist.

[hopeforthebest]

This anti Bell stuff has been going on since 2005 and yet a succession of England coaches and Captains have wanted him in their team. I'll take their opinions ahead of any prejudiced poster on a cricket site.

[backfootpunch]

Bell has been poor for a long time

The only reason he is in the side is the laxk of experience in the top 7 and the struggle of the various new players they tried

Had ballances form not collapsed so dramatically bell would have been dropped already

I have always been a huge fan but his defensive technique seems to have regressed and he is unable to bat long periods