Eng Test tour of NZ, Nov 28 - Dec 18

[backfootpunch]

They may as well try

Duckett
Bethell
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith

Bethell has essentially opened in this series anyway.

[Durhamfootman]

A hundred run stand between Bethell and Root, but it's all falling apart now

[backfootpunch]

Orourke is bowling extremely well

So awkward for the right handers with his angle in.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Five wickets in the series for Southee. Not a great send off for him.

Maybe a ton here for Bethell will keep him in the top order.

[backfootpunch]

Bethell throws away an easy hundred

After surviving the spell from orourke gifts his wicket to a wide one from southee.

[backfootpunch]

I'm all for them being aggressive but the shots played by duckett and bethell in this innings were just plain reckless

[Arthur Crabtree]

Stokes must be in a bad way. Presume this no-show means he's in at 11. Or not at all.

[backfootpunch]

No sense in him batting injured in a game that is already lost.

[alfie]

All pretty inevitable - as it has been since the NZ second innings didn't collapse against the new ball.

Couple of ugly dismissals. Duckett really overdid the aggressive opening ploy...and Pope's attempt to reverse a good length ball from Henry was just plain silly. In the larger sense it doesn't matter : series was won , match was lost ; but it does highlight the weaknesses in England's batting set up .

Apart from Root - and now Brook - England haven't had anyone capable of maintaining a consistently solid record (average north of 40 , roughly) for a sustained period , for many years . Cook until he retired in 2018 , Ballance all too briefly in 2014 - but otherwise no one since the Flower squad fell apart in Australia 2013/14. Have relied on Root , with assistance from mercurial players like Stokes , Bairstow , and the under pressure current pair of Pope and Crawley to win games with the bat. But none of them have been able to do the job regularly enough : even Duckett has just seen his average slip below 40 with a duel failure here. (He is one who may possibly have benefited from a more than normal ration of good fortune in many of his innings so far : it could be that the law of averages will catch up with him if he doesn't - at least slightly - modify his method of never leaving a ball )

There is some promise in the arrival of Smith , who looks very good. But I think I will wait and see how he fares against the Big Teams before putting him up for canonization. I certainly wouldn't be moving him to fill a hole just yet. And Bethell has done far better on debut than his FC record would have predicted...though the contrast between his battling first innings efforts and the free wheeling second knocks (with the real pressure absent for widely varying reasons) is quite stark. Could he open in place of Crawley ? Maybe.

Hey it is a series win , first in NZ for 16 years. Stokes bowled long spells - too long , in the end. But he has months now to get right and I think this shows there is no reason he can't still do a job with the ball as long as he doesn't overdo things. Let the younger lads do the hard yards. England's strengths and weaknesses remain basically the same : the pace bowling is good - Anderson and Broad seemingly replaced much better and earlier than feared ; the batting from 4 down is fine : just a rather erratic top three and the lack of a truly top class spinner that needs to be worried about.

Plenty of time to discuss possible solutions before next May...

[andy]

The batting performance in the whole test screamed of dead rubber and not much intrest which is wrong..

Duckett will come back he's too good not too, just needs to rein it in a touch, Bethell 3 half centuries in 6 innings is a fantastic start especially against NZ, he surely starts the test match summer he has taken his chance, I honestly like the idea of Pope with the gloves especially down at number 6, so it leaves Smith free to bat wherever managemrnt deem is neccesary...

From NZ point of view, sad end for Southee who's decline was rapid in the end over past 12 months, however a good bowler for NZ and rightly went out on his own terms, the form of Ravindra is worrying given all the hype but im sure he will come again....O'Rourke looks like a huge talent for the future and will lead this Kiwi bowling attack long term, they do need a quality spinner from somewhere though

[backfootpunch]

The top 3 is a big worry really

Failed in the first innings in each game.

Should have cost us the series and would have had new Zealand not dropped harry brook 5 times in the first game.

Bethell looks promising but I'm not convinced by any of Crawley, pope or duckett.

Duckett stats look perfectly good but when you look closer they are boosted heavily by a big hundred against Ireland and runs on very flat pitches in Pakistan

Take those out and his record is 1 hundred in 25 matches at 31.97.

[andy]

The top 3 is a worry yes however,

Crawley we all know is probably now set for a time out as there is no way he can start the summer as opener now and he probably knows that given his reaction to getting out in the last test

Duckett yes he is frustrating however he is good enough and he is the best we have had in the position since the days of Cook and Strauss im happy for duckett to stay there just needs to rein it in a little

Bethell - it's his first series and he did make 3 half centuries, he has earned a run in the side, so really it's only crawley that we did need to remove for now, the other two have earned a run in the side

[alfie]

Top three has really been the main weakness for many years...that and the spinner. Fortunately the later order has tended to do rather well most of the time and with Brook in there these days I see that continuing ; but you don't want them to have to bail you out all the time.

Despite that the current group have been arguably more often effective than the others tried over the last ten years or so. I have doubts about Pope in Australia , for example : but he has scored 6 centuries in that position. Only another 11 have been made by all the other occupants of that spot since Trott vacated it...and 5 of them were by Root , who doesn't want to play there. And the Duckett/Crawley pairing has produced a fair number of rocket starts ... though Crawley's current run of outs is really testing the question of whether they can carry his too frequent early dismissals in order to profit from the occasional piece of brilliance. His Ashes performance last year - and efforts in India - have probably earned him a little more credit . But it must be running down...

Always easy to say "not good enough" . Trouble is finding "better" players for those positions has proved elusive for a long time. Will be very interesting to see just what the selectors do in the summer.

[sussexpob]

I guess we can deep dive into the problems and successes. But to put it as simply as possible, from a bowling perspective England could not of had a better year considering the quality lost in recent times. True, they still havent found a spinner. True, its early days.... but Carse and Atkinson could not of had a better introduction to test cricket, and from seemingly nothing, England have the foundation of a bowling attack.

A year ago, I'd have said England would have zero hope away in Australia next year..... a year on, I think its a series there to be won.

I guess that shows you progress, irrespective of the problems with the team

[Durhamfootman]

yes, I agree with that

and, of course, England now have several bowling options, who can be rotated. They're going to need to be able to do that if they keep playing 17 test matches in a year.