India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

SA in Eng, NZ in Ire & Scot, Pak in SL, India in WI

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:46 pm

Certainly South Africa will have to put on their thinking caps
2022 T20 Blast FL
2022 Ashes FL
2021 All Year Fantasy Competition
2021 ICC T20 World Cup FL
2021 Big Bash League FL
2020 SA-England combined FL
2020 Caribbean Premier League FL
2019 NZ-England test FL
2019 WI-India combined FL
2019 The Open Golf FL
2019 French Open Tennis FL
2019 Sheffield Shield FL
2019 Players Championship Golf FL
2019 Women's National Cricket League FL
2019 Women's Big Bash League FL
2018 All Year Fantasy Competition
2017 The Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-South Africa test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 53640
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:55 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:or it might be what SP said :D

clearly we've both been thinking about the same things


I was playing DA's as stated... I just cant handle all this success ....

I cant honestly say I have a flavour for Stokes as an onfield captain yet, other than that bodyline stuff the other day, nothing has jumped out at me... which usually is a positive indication, because being a captain isnt just about being inventive, sometimes doing that's that arent crazy is also pretty good (like Bumrah with his two short midwickets earlier, I have no idea what he was doing).

What is very much good with the captaincy switch is, let Joe Root bat. He's played a lot of cricket over the years, hes 31 (possible 32?) now. He's at his peak, let him concentrate on being excellent and someone else doing what he wasnt very good at. Root looks a changed man, in many ways technically he's improved and sense his pouring all his time into his game. Sometimes it doesnt matter how you bowl, and that felt like that this morning with Root batting. He made a couple of errors when the game was clearly over, but outside that off stump he was just ridiculous. The footwork and hands up there with the best I have seen. Get into position, head still, footwork sharp, playing the ball late. He was turning good length 4th stump bowling into constant runs.

Potts also seems to be a great find. Has the ability to tighten the pressure, has the ability to attack. Hopefully he stays fit.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 33066
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Gingerfinch » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:04 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:Certainly South Africa will have to put on their thinking caps


Bowl first!
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 20932
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:13 pm

Indeed ginger. Can't think when if ever a team has batted second four times in a row and won. It's definitely unprecedented chasing those scores.

I'd put Foakes and Leach in the positives column this summer. Not overwhelming, but more good than bad. Leach got a bit of tap first innings in this game, but facing the best players of spin in the world on an early season pitch offering nothing, against well set batsmen who got after him, I'd not hold that against him. And he did better than Jadeja in the second innings.

You'd have to say England's batters, Bairstow especially, have had some luck, but they have made the most of their luck and punished the opposition for it, seizing the initiative. I'd been saying for years that England have often been competitive against the best sides in the early stages in the match, but have failed to win key moments and let the game get away. The opposite has been the case this summer, and I have to give England credit for that.

I do wonder how much the balls have had an effect on the outcome. England's opponents have plundered runs for the sixth and seventh wickets, and England have recovered from early failures to make decent totals - very very few wickets have gone down to a ball past 30 overs old in all four tests. It's clearly going out of shape and doing nothing but sitting up to be hit after that time.

But four wins in a row against the best two teams in the world do not happen by fluke, even at home. I'm enjoying it while it lasts.

Highest successful chases ever below. Only one higher successful chase in England, and that was by a Bradman-led Australia (the Don 173* in the chase)
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ew=innings
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 5412
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:14 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:Can't see them getting out of this one, but we said that at TB I guess...


Same result...
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 5412
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:28 pm

Just to add insult to injury, India docked WTC points for a slow over rate...

The big four since the start of 2020:

Root 3099 runs at 57.38, 11 hundreds, 9 50s in 60 innings (1 fifty+ per three innings, 1 hundred per six innings)
Williamson 989 runs at 61.81, 3 hundreds, 2 50s in 17 innings (1 fifty+ per 3.5 innings, 1 hundred per six innings)
Kohli 872 runs at 27.25, 0 hundreds, 6 50s in 32 innings (1 fifty+ per 5.5 innings)
Smith 852 runs at 40.57, 1 hundred, 8 50s in 22 innings (1 fifty per 2.75 innings, 1 hundred per 22 innings)

Obviously Root has played an awful lot more than the others, but a few years ago, we were worried he was not fulfilling his potential and was the worst of the 'big four' - and if he ever solved his conversion rate problem, he'd be genuinely great.

Well, for now, job done. The conversion rate is as good as they get, and he's up at the top.

Smith's figures are still good, but only good - back from insanity to human-like levels again. And Kohli's form has been missing for a long time now. Got to wonder how much longer he can command a place in the test side - he's there on reputation only now, surely? Might this test be the last straw before he gets dropped?
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 5412
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:06 pm

BMcC is looking good at the moment.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 74220
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:37 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Durhamfootman wrote:or it might be what SP said :D

clearly we've both been thinking about the same things


I was playing DA's as stated... I just cant handle all this success ....

I cant honestly say I have a flavour for Stokes as an onfield captain yet, other than that bodyline stuff the other day, nothing has jumped out at me... which usually is a positive indication, because being a captain isnt just about being inventive, sometimes doing that's that arent crazy is also pretty good

I forget which test it was, but there were times against NZ when Stokes had 5 and 6 slips in.

6 slips..... I doubt that will have happened once during the reigns of honest Joe and Sir Steely.

After years of tentative, defensive, safety first captaincy where a couple of boundaries in an over would trigger the moving of 3rd slip to a more defensive position, Stokes seems to want to go the other way and I quite approve of that

I'm looking forward to seeing what a Stokes declaration might look like when eventually England have to bat first and set a target. I'm guessing that he won't always want a minimum of 450 or 500
2022 T20 Blast FL
2022 Ashes FL
2021 All Year Fantasy Competition
2021 ICC T20 World Cup FL
2021 Big Bash League FL
2020 SA-England combined FL
2020 Caribbean Premier League FL
2019 NZ-England test FL
2019 WI-India combined FL
2019 The Open Golf FL
2019 French Open Tennis FL
2019 Sheffield Shield FL
2019 Players Championship Golf FL
2019 Women's National Cricket League FL
2019 Women's Big Bash League FL
2018 All Year Fantasy Competition
2017 The Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-South Africa test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 53640
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:39 pm

At some point, of course, the house is going to come crashing down, so I'm looking forward to moaning about how stupid some of the decisions were as well :halo:
2022 T20 Blast FL
2022 Ashes FL
2021 All Year Fantasy Competition
2021 ICC T20 World Cup FL
2021 Big Bash League FL
2020 SA-England combined FL
2020 Caribbean Premier League FL
2019 NZ-England test FL
2019 WI-India combined FL
2019 The Open Golf FL
2019 French Open Tennis FL
2019 Sheffield Shield FL
2019 Players Championship Golf FL
2019 Women's National Cricket League FL
2019 Women's Big Bash League FL
2018 All Year Fantasy Competition
2017 The Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-South Africa test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 53640
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:26 am

Durhamfootman wrote: I forget which test it was, but there were times against NZ when Stokes had 5 and 6 slips in.

6 slips..... I doubt that will have happened once during the reigns of honest Joe and Sir Steely


Having fielded a lot a gully at club level, I'd have argued it was 4 slips and 2 gully's (established wisdom would say you trace an imaginary line through middle stump to the leg side edge of the batsmans crease line, and anything more square of that line is a gully, which it looked like to me). If a left arm bowler is operating or a right arm bowler goes round the wicket, like Anderson was doing, the gully tucks in a little finer and less deep as batsman also tend to hit at a finer angle.

Not that it matters, because 4 slips and a 2 gully's is still very attacking fields. But in fairness to Steely England have in more recent pasts had fields like that, particularly to Australian batsman in Oz. Someone like Shane Watson or Steve Smith, who have tendencies to drive more square of the wicket, routinely get slips and two gully's (well, until Steve Smith reached 30 on the way to another hundred)....

Obviously England had shattered NZ's batting at Lords when this happened, so its not a great indicator of a general tactical blueprint.

I mean, I am not saying I found it negative or positive, just through this summer I haven't seen enough of Stokes tactical captaincy to make an assessment....
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 33066
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:36 am

I did nearly choke on my morning coffee reading the BBC frontline assessment of the match. I think the author of the article, entitled "its time to get carried away", really did get carried away. Apparently every single player is awesome and has improved.

"Zak Crawley has went from batting like Michael McIntyre to Michael Vaughan"...... if thats true, then its the Michael Vaughan in 2008 when he could no longer move his knee without collapsing.

"Alex Lees is now an intimidating presence at opener".... something tells me that Australia arent losing sleep thinking about that average of 24.

"The Ollie Pope at 3 experiment has worked".... Indeed it has, but he was dropped twice and the statement "edged just short" appears 6 times in the commentary of his 100.

There is something intolerably moronic about the English cricketing press. We win 4 games in a row after winning one test in about 17, and the cricket writing community is teetering on the edge of proclaiming this team are comparable to the Windies in 1980
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 33066
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby alfie » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:52 am

I think that article was intended somewhat tongue-in-cheek... At least that was how I read it.

Obviously four wins doesn't mean all problems are solved overnight. But you'd have to be a bit of a curmudgeon to deny that these results have put a lot of life back into English cricket at a time when a rotten run of results had most supporters practically giving up in despair.

And there is some truth to the claims of improvement (though not as magical as the article , taken literally , might suggest !)

Lees has shown both a few shots , and the inclination to play them - to confound early categorization as a left handed Sibley. Seven games in and a top score of 67 so he has work to do yet - but he's already indicated he has a bit more to him than an underwhelming series in the Caribbean might have led one to believe.
Crawley - well there is a disconnect between the elegance of his stroke making and the cold hard figures. That second innings - and the team success - will see him retained for the SA series ; but he needs to learn proper judgement in defence/attack , and work on his footwork , if he is to survive at this level. I hope , more than expect , he will make it ; but time will eventually tell.
As for Pope : honestly didn't expect him to make a go of number three - I would probably have kept him out of the firing line a bit longer. But that excellent hundred , and later fourth innings 80 , against NZ are at least hints that he may yet learn to play for England as he does for Surrey. The counterpoint is all the other innings in which he has fallen immediately or scratched around like an old hen...too soon to say , I reckon.
The jury is still out on the three of them , seems a reasonable assessment , no ? Note it is harder for them in that they do not benefit from having even one established player amongst them : probably a somewhat unusual situation for young players trying to make their way at the top of the order...

Dare I suggest that 4-6 look to be settled for now ? :)
alfie
 
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:46 am

alfie wrote: Crawley - well there is a disconnect between the elegance of his stroke making and the cold hard figures. That second innings - and the team success - will see him retained for the SA series ; but he needs to learn proper judgement in defence/attack , and work on his footwork , if he is to survive at this level. I hope , more than expect , he will make it ; but time will eventually tell.


Not sure if you are a golf man, but Zak Crawley reminds me of someone like Bubba Watson. When he's on point and all of the moving parts go in unison, he's hits the ball better than anyone out there; but its a complex high risk style that requires everything to work perfectly, and often it just falls apart. His porous defence requires him to be positive, and being positive requires him to be perfect. So you get tests like the last one where its a mix bag of wafting outside off stump, and absolutely creaming drives like a lightening bolt through the covers. But each of those drives he played to length balls.... you get it a little wrong, and its toast.

I think his career so far probably sums him up quite a bit. Big scores of impressive batting, followed by non-starts. And his FC career is not great either, so he's not proved at low levels he can consistently make his technique and approach work.

I'd be very surprised to see him become an adequate test bat. And my opinion is, if he is to become one, he has to put the work in at the lower forms of the game. A lot of his problems are very fundamental. Head moving and not over the ball, footwork not great. Against spin hes not looked at all very good either
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 33066
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby alfie » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:22 pm

Not really a golf expert but I understand the analogy. And I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

As I said , I am only "hopeful". But I do think it is possible for him to prosper - if he can develop better judgement of when to leave , defend or hit it. Possibly not as an opener though. May well be easier for him to do so at a lower level ; but it seems England are committed to having him learn it on the big stage...a tough gig.
alfie
 
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

Postby Slipstream » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:35 pm

Australia
“If you come on a wicket that’s got some grass and Hazlewood, Cummins and Starc are rolling in at you ... we'll see what happens.

South Africa
“Let's see them do that against our bowlers,” said Rassie van der Dussen
User avatar
Slipstream
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:36 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Live Cricket Matches

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests