Random footie

[sussexpob]

Indeed Yuppie. Florentino Perez has the audacity to come out today and say he's saving football because these big sides can no longer operate with their current revenue streams; this coming from a man who has broken the world transfer record about 15 times in his years as Real Madrid President. Frankly Senor Perez none of us are stupid enough to buy these claims, and your insinuation in the counter that I am a sort of future fearing luddite who is just attacking change is past the point of insult. If there is anyone to blame for footballing finances becoming out of control, then it was you alone that can be blamed; it wasnt us fans who decided to buy Figo, Beckham, Zidane, Anelka, Ramos, Ronaldo and god knows who else, all at prices that shattered existing records. And then again, with Ronaldo, James, Bale and the like later. We didnt give them ridiculous contracts either. It was you Mr Perez. You alone. You even bragged about it.

This is what is most galling. The quest for money in football leaves no one winning, and its the fans that pay the price. If Real Madrid have revenues of 700 million Euros a year, they spend all of it, regardless. More money has been proven just to expand wage bills and hype transfer fees. The more money clubs have, the more debt they have, its been proven since the millennium. The great win for clubs of the modern agee with hyped tv money was to see transfer fees go from 15 million records to 200 million records in 15 odd years. Wages for the highest players has hyped 30 fold, and the average has skyrocketed.

Barcelona posted record revenues in the last 10 years. In that space of time they also went from debt free, to 1.2 billion in debt. 88% percent of their revenues are player wages. They still owe an apparent 150 million Euros in the immediate short term for players they signed and havent paid for; Malcom, who they bought from Bordeaux for 40 million, are still owed 25 million of it - and yet, Barcelona sold Malcom one year later to Zenit for the same price they paid, and did not pay of the debt, they just bought Pjanic instead. Who they still owe 40 million to Juventus for. If they are in debt and in trouble, then there are immediate things they could do to cut costs. They just choose not to. You cant simultaneously complain there is not enough money, while trying to negotiate a new 200 million contract with your top player. Let him go, and 20% of the debt is cleared. Sell players.

But it doesnt matter does it? Man City recently had a wage bill of 140% of their yearly revenue. I took my Norwegian nephew to watch them as he supports them about 2 years ago; the 500ml bottle of Coke at half time cost me 5 quid. The match ticket was 48 each plus a mysterious booking fee of 5 quid, then a credit card fee of a couple of quid even though there is no other way to pay. The program was a tenner. The inedible filth they sold to eat was another tenner each. The scarf was 30 quid, the bobble hat was the same. He had a jersey thankfully, but that would have been a 100 quid. And if you want to get a player autograph, then rather than sit with your pen hoping someone warming up comes over, you have to buy a match day package. The players arent allowed to give freebies anymore, a signature and a photo is reserved only for those that pay.

That's what extra money brings. The match day experience for fans costs treble of what it was only 15 years ago, all so the price of Sergio Aguero transfer jumps from 40 million euros to 100 million, and his wage can be 300k a week instead of 100k a week. But it is the fans who pay. This money doesnt magically appear.

So when Perez sits there smiling about how much extra cash Real Madrid can earn, what he really means is the ticket price at the gate will go up double. That they will whack another 2 euros on the price of a beer or coke, the match day program will be 13 quid, the jersey will go to 150, and your sky package that already rose up from 15 to 100 quid a month in a decade wont even buy you the top level of football, and will require another ESL sub at 30 quid a month or whatever it is.

Its gone too far. Its a never-ending nuclear arms race at the top. Everyone wants more money to spunk on the best players, paying ever more high wages to attract the talent, and it never stops. ITs reached a spot now where live football at the top is no longer for the working class, these proposals will make it even out of reach of the middle class.

But thye dont care. The matches will be moved to New York, or Beijing, or Dubai. Mancheter United wont play in Manchester anymore.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Football is drowning in money. Only world class incompetents couldn't manage top level football successfully.

But supporters of the game swallow everything they are given, so I'll be surprised if these clubs don't just get away with this, even if it's not what people want.

[sussexpob]

But supporters of the game swallow everything they are given, so I'll be surprised if these clubs don't just get away with this, even if it's not what people want.

The change in dynamic in the sport hasnt lead to much of a noticeable fan backlash, but the fact is football stadia in the 90s were mostly hell holes reserved for working class men, and they could be intimidating places for particularly women or children, or even men of a different sensibility. But football stadiums have become characterless, sterile bowls..... which actually attracts women, people of all shapes and sizes, and more affluent crowds. So the rise in cost at the gates doesnt really matter, its not these new breed of fans coming into the ground that notice the rise in cost, nor are that much affected by it. It the working class they've replaced who are disenfranchised by the process, but clubs dont care about them, they dont represent any economic value anyway.

But the continued search for more revenues and treating football as a business has got to the stage where even these newer fans cannot sustain it. And those working class left busting a gut to pay for their season tickets will be totally excluded.

Which is why the new league will no doubt travel around different countries. One off big matches that can draw a crowd for large money, but doesnt exhaust it in one base. But in the end, the domestic presence will die, which is not palatable.

The whole model is a risk. I mean, Man United already guaranteed a place in the Super 12 league are hardly going to care about weekend matches in a league they have no chance of winning, where 4-6th places no longer matter, while just be glorified friendlies. Asknig people to pony up 100 quid a game to watch a reserve team playing a nothing match. At this point people will not pay, especially with the bad faith.

[sussexpob]

Of course, I gave up on this as an active fan a long time ago. I watch on TV, but outside England its not expensive to follow. But I go to the AMEX stadium and its not the Withdean, nor Goldstone; not the same vibe. I love football for esoteric reasons, the demanding success or needing to be in a state of the art stadium means nothing to me.... give me a cup of Bovril getting rained on during a bitter January evening, and seeing your team get beat over witnessing them win the PL surrounded by fake, calm weather fans. Urgh...

I go to Union in Belgium to watch, but I do so because its old fashioned. Its like being back in the late 80s or early 90s, before football became a profit game. Season tickets for 100 Euros, a beer for 2 Euros, no one being ripped off or treated like a number.

Was love at first sight.

[yuppie]

With City and Chelsea leaving the ESL i guess its only a matter of time before it collapses. Talk that Athletico are also jumping ship and Barcelona as well.

And these clubs will get away with it. I hope there is some punishment for them. Perhaps UEFA do not allow them to sign up again for a year:)

[yuppie]

this is truly wonderful to watch at present.

Everything is collapsing and so many resignations.

But it should not be forgotten.

[sussexpob]

One can only guess what has happened, but surely UEFA must have just gone nuclear on them.

[yuppie]

Im guessing some of these clubs are so heavily in debt that they had to push for this, and indeed they still might keep going with it.

This plan seems rushed with no start date or anything. Just as soon as possible. Perhaps this is their final attempt to rectify their financial miss management. Perhaps we might see them now do a Rangers.....

[Durhamfootman]

My understanding is that Mike Ashley briefly considered participating in the ESL, but wasn't prepared to splash out on the £100 joining fee

[sussexpob]

All six English teams pull out.

The damage might never be repaired, but for now at least, the fans have spoken and won.

I guess we will find out why in the coming days, but some threats must have been thrown around. Even Boris Johnson mentioned possible litigation to prevent the move earlier, my guess is these clubs have been told from UEFA and possibly even the government that continuing would end in annihilation.

Or maybe uefa struck a deal. While it makes sense, it seems unlikely with uefa and Perez's words being very aggressive. Uefa president called them snakes and liars, and pulled no punches. No way that situation was repaired in 10 Hours

[bigfluffylemon]

Well, that was quick. Terrible idea gets shot down in no time. I guess we'll see what the damage is, but I'm thankful it's died a quick death.

Incidentally, why do Newcastle fans hate Ashley so much? I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, I just don't really know anything about him or Newcastle FC recently, other than that he appears to be widely loathed.

[alfie]

Football has literally just been hijacked by 12 people.

15 seemingly, with 3 clubs presumably keeping their heads below the parapet until they see which way the wind is blowing, then space for an extra 5 after that

If I was a betting man I'd put money on this blowing over. It feels like the owners are 'testing the water'.

The very fact that Spurs are there, tells me that this isn't a league for the best clubs in Europe.

Eventually it might happen, because inevitably players always end up following the money, but I'm not sure that that time is now

Good call

[sussexpob]

I timing may have felt rushed, but the UEFA vote on the CLs was being shaped as the excuse to forward the motion, and when that suddenly hit the agenda at the weekend there hand was forced. I dont think that this was a game though, not at all. Perez even now is refusing to back down as half the clubs left the project, he has mentioned other teams being invited and has said they soldier on with the plan. Rumours are Juventus are furious with the PL teams and are not backing down. So its not fully over, but its debtable what good it is without the PL teams.

One narrative has been the oil barons of World football, the Chelsea/City owners and PSG, were never interested that mcuh in the project, and were the first to turn their back on it. They own the clubs for vanity projects and not money spinners, so as soon as it became obvious that this was unpopular, Roman and the Qatari's pulled the plug. Been widely reported in Roman's case that he had to be almost dragged into it, mostly out of fear of being left behind if it worked.

One thing that is clear; some owners already unpopular, like the Glaziers and Kroenke, maybe on borrowed time. I really cant see how they remain owners. Liverpool fans are demanding their American owners sell now.

Fair play to Arsenal for apologizing to fans for "making a big mistake" .... not sure what the hell Spurs and United were doing releasing press releases almost bemoaning the fact fans had stopped them from saving football.

[sussexpob]

Incidentally, why do Newcastle fans hate Ashley so much? I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, I just don't really know anything about him or Newcastle FC recently, other than that he appears to be widely loathed.

If you want a journey into the mind of Ashley, then look no further than the point at which he was hauled before a parliamentary committee to explain allegations that his company was not paying people even minimum wage and forcing people to work in horrendous conditions, ending with a prime time panorama expose of damaging proportions. On a PR mission to rehabilitate his reputation, he invited the cameras to his factory to show them how he was actually a great boss, then seemingly on purpose infront of the assembled media cameras, pulled out the offending money clip surrounding a wad of 50 quid notes so large he struggled to get it out his pocket, before saying "yeah, I just went to the casino" in a sort of bizarre stage managed attempt to brag. When you are under fire for underpaying people, quite why you would be so stupid to think that would reflect well on you is beyond comprehension. I get the feeling Ashley is a buffon who could relive his life 99 times again, and the actual reality is the one time he doesnt end working in Burger King for the rest of his life after bankrupting himself. He was supposed to have opened 100s of shops in an aggressive campaign to expand his empire, but was still operating as a sole trader.... which is frankly crazy business sense.

[sussexpob]

But to answer your question more directly, I think the first thing that really hurt Newcastle fans was how he treated club legend Kevin Keegan. Ashley for some unknown reason decided to hire Dennis Wise as some sort of backroom guru despite being vastly underqualified, despite also having failed everywhere as a manager, and having just relegated Leeds in their historically worst season ever, and put Derek Llambias in place as MD, a man who run a disco in London and had never set foot in a business that size, nor had experience of football.

Keegan clashed with both quickly, as both started to interfere and try to make management decisions on his behalf. Keegan is supposed to of had a quite violent meeting with Wise that spilled out of control, the result of which ended with Keegan walking out and eventually suing the club successfully in a multi-million quid unfair dismissal case. The Newcastle fans were outraged a club legend had been forced out by two jokers in the backroom they'd never heard of, but Ashley seemed to side with Llambias (Keegan went for talks to salvage the situation and demanded both were sacked, but Ashley refused).

From there things descended into utter farce. Ashley hired Joe Kinnear, a has been manager who'd been retired a decade who turned up to his press conference seemingly drunk, and who then went through the press assembled insulting them personally, using the C*** word liberally. If you have never seen this, its hilarious. Check below link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN4gcNYo7RM

Kinnear was an embarressement. He didnt even know the player names. He called Charles N'Zogbia... Charles Insomina. In a rant later to the Mirror, again seemingly drunk, he went through a raft of players in his squad and got all their names wrong. He called for instance Yohann Cabaye, the start of the team, Yohann Kebab. Again hearing is believing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_s3vBNeTy8

Kinnear basically relegated Newcastle, the club hiring another club legend Alan Shearer a couple of games towards the end with the team almost already relegated. Shearer ended up failing, but just like Keegan, the club ended up insulting him by not even letting him know whether he was manager, and Shearer claims he just had to assume Llambias sacked him, because he never got called.

Chris Hughton then became manager, got them promoted, and Ashley sacked him. Another popular figure with the fans, another situation that enflamed them. It basically continued like this for 15 years.

In that time he gave Pardew an unprecedented 8 year deal. He sold all of Newcastle's players, never invested the money back, leading to two relegations. He changed St James Park to the Sports Direct arena....

I could go on and on. Basically at every attempt, Ashley p8sses off the geordie fans. Its almost got the point he trolls them. And he claims he doesnt invest because he wants to sell, but receives bids everyday to sell up and refuses them.

All he wants to do is continually suck the club and asset strip it.