English football 2023-24

[Durhamfootman]

once upon a time players signing for Man Utd more often than not became better players. The reverse seems to be true these days... certainly under the last two regimes

3 regimes actually... I forgot about wreck it Ralf...... easy done, I suppose

Man Utd indebted to a Fernandes wonder strike by all accounts

[Durhamfootman]

Newcastle dusting off the cobwebs at Bramall Lane in the first half

not the usual goalscorers either. Longstaff, Burn and Botman (his first, I think)

[Durhamfootman]

Oh lordy.... 8-0

8 different scorers too. I doubt that has happened very often

Newcastle up to 8th, after their really slow start

[sussexpob]

First thing that I thought when checking the score (8 scorers thing). I thought Sheffield looked ok in other games, but they must be in trouble now. Newcastle back with a nuclear bang

[Durhamfootman]

I think that Sheff Utd had only lost their other games by the odd goal, but their defending yesterday was utterly shambolic. No marking whatsoever and Newcastle just had acres of space to play in.

They might be in trouble too after a missiles was thrown on to the pitch following the 3rd goal, which hit Anderson on the leg

[Durhamfootman]

The way the rules are written it's a definite penalty, in a time where even a butterflies wing brushing across a players bootlace is deemed sufficient to say there was enough contact for a penalty to be awarded, this had all the contact anyone could possibly want, but should it have been a penalty? I'm less sure about that. Gordon knew that if he got there first he'd win a penalty and there wasn't much the keeper could do about that, so in that regard the rules are harsh, perhaps too harsh

I listened to Frank complaining about the penalty award and saying that not only was it not a penalty, but that he expected Howard Webb to be on the phone the next day to apologise....... well Howard Webb didn't phone him up, because it was a penalty according to the rules. I was in no doubt about that, even if I do question whether it should be in the rules

[Durhamfootman]

well....... I wonder how many people saw that coming?

Having knocked a third string Man City side out of the league cup with a second string side of their own, Newcastle will probably get Liverpool away in the next round

great result!

[Durhamfootman]

Man Utd at OT

doh!

[mikesiva]

Losing today

Manchester City
Manchester United
Liverpool

Interesting how much better Tottenham are playing now that Kane has gone to Germany.

[Durhamfootman]

Klopp raging, seemingly. 2 players sent off and a goal ruled out incorrectly for offside by VAR. I've seen the first red, it was described as controversial by the media, because his foot rolled over the top of the ball, but it looked like an old fashioned ankle breaker to me

poor old Kloppy

oh dear, how sad, never mind

[Durhamfootman]

meanwhile a routine win for Newcastle. 5 consecutive clean sheets in all competitions, but another injury, this time to Joelinton.
Wilson, Botman, Willock, Barnes and now Big Joe... they're beginning to mount up.

[sussexpob]

Interesting how much better Tottenham are playing now that Kane has gone to Germany.

Kane was excellent last year. If Ante had him with his tactics, spurs would be in a title race. But depth in key areas is going to bring them down

[Durhamfootman]

Kane has played in 6 matches in the bundesliga, scored 8 goals and has only not scored in one match. Spurs would love him to be there scoring 8 goals for them, I reckon

[mikesiva]

Modern football requires strikers to play the forward press all together. When Kane was at Tottenham, he didn't play the forward press, which allowed teams to build up a lot of attacks on the Tottenham goal. Hence, Tottenham finishing so low down the table last season.

Now that Kane has left, the front three of Son, Kulusevski and Richarlison can play the forward press in unison, and it's achieving results Tottenham couldn't achieve with Kane. They break up opponents passing game before they even come out of their own half.

The Liverpool game is a case in point, notwithstanding the dodgy refereeing decisions.

[sussexpob]

Modern football requires strikers to play the forward press all together. When Kane was at Tottenham, he didn't play the forward press, which allowed teams to build up a lot of attacks on the Tottenham goal. Hence, Tottenham finishing so low down the table last season

It seems like you are taking one variable in a huge number of differences, and trying to superimpose a narrative over it. Spurs are starting about 5-6-7 different players to last year in recent matches, have a different manager in place, and a totally different tactical style - so just saying Kane is the difference is untrue.

Take for instance the goal keeper. Last year Liverpool and Spurs post shot on target expected goals was almost identical, but Spurs conceded 16 more goals in the season - so just one variable, in this instance a keeper saving a lot more than they should v one that is letting in more than they should - is on its own worth 16 goals in a season. As a comparison, Vicario this year has the highest saves above expectation, and the best ratio of expectation ..... If Lloris and Forster were still performing like last year, you can add a goal every 2.3 matches, so they would have conceded 3 goals. 4 of their results could have changed with 1 goal.... so this one variable, had it not changed, could have alone lost 7 points for Spurs already this season.

As for the forward press - Kane had more defensive interventions than Haaland, but having a striker at 9 who was almost non-existent in defence didn't stop Man City smashing 95 goals in. Nor did it help Leeds, who had the most tackles in the opponents final third, from getting relegated. So its dubious how much of a difference this makes - in fact, Kane had more tackles than the vast majority of those ending up on the top scorers list... showing that, while he might not press like a rocket, neither really does any number 9 central striker... only Toney was above him (by 1 tackle) out of true centre forwards, wide forwards of course need to press more because they play slightly behind.... plus neither Son, Kulusevski or Richarlison had defensive stats last year that suggest they were any better, and especially significantly enough to jettison 30 goals for.

The most interesting thing about Spurs? Sarr and Bissouma's stats in winning the ball are astronomical this year. Id suggest removing the useless Hojberg and Bentancur getting injured and replaced might have more to do with Spurs suddenly finding form.... they were crap last year in the Midfield