Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

I'm now supporting Messi.

Well drat.

Back to the cricket I guess.

I was surprised he took Saka off, because he terrorised the defenders tonight, but I'm not going to be too critical tonight, because England gave it a real go and SG didn't go ultra defensive with his selections.

Just before the Giroud goal, I felt that England were going to go on and win this. France were scrambling around in that second half and that might be the only time they're made to play like that in this tournament

Going on all the build up and paper talk, all England had to do was stop Mbappe and win. Well they stopped Mbappe tonight, because he barely featured, yet they didn't win

Gingerfinch wrote:I'm now supporting Messi.

not me. He let himself down badly last night amid all the shenanigans

I hope Argentina get crushed

Fact is, we have a better team than the world champions (elect) and we've made a QF.

Southgate has to go.

I was cross when England lost to Croatia 4 years ago. I was incandescent when they lost to Italy last year, but I'm fairly sanguine about tonight, because this time they deserved better, rather than getting what they deserved

still.... onwards and upwards.... Potter for England

sussexpob wrote:Fact is, we have a better team than the world champions (elect) and we've made a QF.

Southgate has to go.

Sussex, I know you loathe Southgate, and I'm not exactly his biggest fan, but I'm having a hard time blaming him that much for tonight. For a start, the fact it's a QF isn't really relevant - if the two best teams in a tournament meet at any stage, one of them is going home, whether that's second round or final. If France win the tournament, it wouldn't make any difference which round we lost to them in terms of judging tournament progress. Like in 2002 - England went out to Brazil in the quarters. It was a poor loss and we deserved to lose, but had we been in a different part of the draw we might have got past South Korea and met Brazil in the final. And lost then.

And tonight, England outplayed France but had a number of things go against them, some bad luck (Saka penalty not given), some execution on the field (Kane fluffed a penalty, Giroud scores against the run of play due to a defensive lapse). How is it Southgate's fault that Kane blew a penalty over the bar? So many things could easily have gone slightly differently and England win.

But then, I've never understood why the manager gets so much blame in football when the players fail to execute. So perhaps I just don't understand the game that well.

Durhamfootman wrote:I was surprised he took Saka off, because he terrorised the defenders tonight, but I'm not going to be too critical tonight, because England gave it a real go and SG didn't go ultra defensive with his selections.

Just before the Giroud goal, I felt that England were going to go on and win this. France were scrambling around in that second half and that might be the only time they're made to play like that in this tournament

Going on all the build up and paper talk, all England had to do was stop Mbappe and win. Well they stopped Mbappe tonight, because he barely featured, yet they didn't win

I also fancied it around then. With the nagging fear that if they didn't score soon- France were going to get one against the run of play... and of course that fear was quickly realised...

Disappointed as I am , have to say I do not feel as flat as after some previous exits (like 2018 for example) ; because I reckon they played right up to their best and gave us (and a very good French team) a terrific contest to watch. Pretty sure the neutrals would all have been hoping for extra time !

I always try to adjust my impressions a little to correct for personal bias ; but I do feel it isn't too much to suggest they were a shade unlucky to lose that ? And were on the wrong side of some questionable refereeing - though VAR at least corrected one rather big one .

Unfortunately the VAR intervention didn't bring any lasting joy. And I do feel for Harry Kane , who doesn't make too many errors like that but is going to be hurting for a long time - and would probably be well advised to stay off social media for a while as the trolls will be out from under their bridges in droves...

Reckon France should win the whole thing from here. They surely ought to beat Morocco (though well done them in their African achievement !) ; and by the time Argentina or Croatia have gone through a semi final sure to be decided on penalties after nil all from extra time they will be totally knackered

seemingly Kane's England record from the spot is 17 from 21, so he misses around one in five, which surprises me a bit.

I hadn't considered, until it was pointed out, that Lloris will have seen him take hundreds of penalties, might well have faced loads of them in training and that could have added to the pressure on Kane.... perhaps make him want to try something different..... who knows

I'm still feeling sanguine this morning

bigfluffylemon wrote:

sussexpob wrote:Fact is, we have a better team than the world champions (elect) and we've made a QF.

Southgate has to go.

Sussex, I know you loathe Southgate, and I'm not exactly his biggest fan, but I'm having a hard time blaming him that much for tonight. For a start, the fact it's a QF isn't really relevant - if the two best teams in a tournament meet at any stage, one of them is going home, whether that's second round or final

The fact is, in three major tournaments under Southgate we have beaten Germany as the only supposed elite side, but their elite credentials are debatable after being knocked out of two consecutive world cups by East Asian sides, and the fact that the German take on their own side in that period is, it's the worst in their history and mediocre.

Either way, I do agree England played well. We didn't deserve to lose, and quite a lot went against us. But, we still lost. There are still mistakes to assess, and still improvements to be made. You look at the game and say, well how did France with so little of the ball win?

At this point, I ask, what was the most controversial choice Southgate made in this tournament? I'd say without a shadow of a doubt, it was picking Maguire not only for his squad (which the majority of pundits didn't), but to start him. I think pretty much zero people who watch football weekly agreed with that decision. I invite you back a month to read my comments, no hindsight in this assessment.

What happened in the end? France throw a deep ball from an area of the field where there is no danger, and guess who drops his marker and doesn't pick his run? Ah yeah, the guy who's club coach won't put him near a football field because he's been a total liability for 2 years. Doesn't contest the ball, 2-1.

Through the tournament only Foden had a worse tackle rate in the England team. He didn't make a single tackle last night, and lost two aerial duals, one leading to a goal, the other a shot on target. He also missed an open header from 8 yards failing to hit the target, and his protection of the ball compared to Stones was far worse. He made three unforced error passes against Senegal leading to chances on goal, so it's not like it wasn't forewarned.

England gave zero minutes to a starting defender in a team leading the PL by 5 points, and instead picked a player who hasnt started since Brentford's strikers embarrassed him, this after a long period of woeful form.

When it mattered, said player made an error that lead to England being knocked out.

The manager has to take full responsibility and accountability for that terrible choice.

Btw, two daily papers have posted articles this morning highlighting Maguire as the weak link. Every match report I've seen, both English and French, highlight him as the worst marked player (in some cases joint)...

So the assessment is clearly not just my subjectivity.

Of course, this being Southgate not only did he not pick Ben White, he sent him home with leaks from the camp now questioning the players professionalism. Didn't apparently know his own training stats, so rather than pick a player dominant in the highest standard league, he picked someone who did his homework, but who's manager can't put him anywhere near a football field.

Remember when he did the same to Foden? Sent him home because he ain't professional, can't be picked.

Interesting, isn't it. The current league leading PL manager and the manager of the team that's dominated English football in the last decade and arguably the best manager in history, say these players are the epitome of professionalism.

Yet a guy who was sacked after taking Crewe to 14th in League one and never managed a side again, and someone who relegated a European level team in his own year as manager, see it different.

Wonder who I trust..... His judgement of players is terrible.

He wouldn't have picked Bellingham if Phillips was fit. He lucked out on that one, because not pint Bellingham for the last 2 years is proof he doesn't watch football.

Southgate considering his future

I think he'll stay and the FA want him to stay. I want him to go, but I fear for Newcastle if he does, so now I want him to stay a little longer. Back in the summer the Newcastle board were looking around for managerial alternatives because, if I understand it corrrectly, although he'd got Newcastle out of a hole last season they weren't sure if Howe was the sort of manager who could spend really big money wisely and they weren't sure if he had enough experience to mix it with Europe's elite.... and they were probably right to think so, given the level of Howe's managerial career to date. By doing so well, so quickly, Howe has probably made them sit back and wait a bit. He's earned himself a lot of breathing space, and rightly so, because he's been terrific in his first 12 months in charge, so he's worth giving time to, but the doubts will probably still remain. I say this as a cautionary note for the FA. Howe is not the finished article yet and he has no experience at the very highest levels, so he might well struggle in that role, especially given that England managers never get to the do the day to day stuff with players that is Howe's particular strength. On the flip side, Southgate had very little experience of top level football either, but Howe is a far better club manager than Southgate ever was, so who knows what the FA might decide

No need for a full time manager. No reason why the job can't be offered to Howe to do both

That won't happen. England manager might warrant a part time position, but club management is a 7 days a week, long hours a day job. There wouldn't be enough time to go to all the free matches and quaff all the free wine

Shearer is backing Southgate.... clearly he doesn't want Howe leaving Newcastle either