The Hokey Cokey is here again 2014-2015

[Gingerfinch]

Well, like many other top players, he's not at Utd, for whatever reason.

As my original post on the issue alluded to... hes not at Man United because the people responsible for negotiations at the club seem to be acting like crackheads.

If your definition is correct. Not saying you're making it up, but a lot of speculation is written.

[sussexpob]

It does make you wonder how much Fergie's aurora even away from the pitch did wonders for United. The whole of the club seemed to operate like a well oiled machine, but now it seems the back room suits are lacking any independence, and lacking a bit of authority and ruthlessness. If they are acting like this in the transfer market, like a small provincial team rather than a mighty club like United, then this attitude is certainly filtering down.

Could you imagine Fergie finding out his main target had talked to the press saying "coming and get me", and then 4 months later finding out no one decided to actually approach for him?

The person responsible would have been pinned up to a wall and had their hair rearranged by the sheer force of his voice.

[Aidan11]

Fergie was fortunate to have a good admin team. David Gill was among the best in the business.

Ed Woodward does not fill me with confidence looking at how things have gone in the first season.

[sussexpob]

Well, like many other top players, he's not at Utd, for whatever reason.

As my original post on the issue alluded to... hes not at Man United because the people responsible for negotiations at the club seem to be acting like crackheads.

If your definition is correct. Not saying you're making it up, but a lot of speculation is written.

The only speculation is the motivation of the player to use another club to pressure Bayern into giving him what he wanted, but this did not pan out. Essentially, as discussed above, Kroos deal ended in 2015. He was being paid 60k a week without bonuses, a tiny sum for such a player. He entered into contract negotiations with Bayern, but they refused to pay him a wage more becoming of a European star player.

In March when it was mentioned he could leave, you could speculate that this was a make weight attempt to scare Bayern into agreeing to his demands. Guardiola did not want to lose him certainly, but that decision was take out of his hands and is not speculation. Firstly, Beckenbauer openly criticised Kroos when he said he would be open to a move to the Premier League, by saying his actions were blackmailing Bayern for a bigger deal. Then Rumminigge came out to say that Kroos would not get a contract, and that for financial reasons they were not going to break the bank for him, and basically told him to shut up.

Kroos then came out in response to say that he wasn't surprised that Bayern had not changed their position, and that this did not change his. He would play for Bayern for 2015, but he would leave after that. His agent also stated no contract could be agreed, and he would basically leave for free then.

Only speculation at this point is whether or not Bayern were prepared to sell Kroos, or force him to play out his contract and leave on a free. It is 100% clear after that he would leave, his agent, the player, the head of the board and CE had all said he wouldn't resign a deal, they were deadlocked, with the club not going to give.

We know though this is not speculation, because they sold Kroos this summer, in proof of the belief that he was secretly being touted to Bayern. The player also says before he joined Real that he never received a deal from anyone else, and had touted a move to Man United in private.

So this leaves only two possibilities.....

1. Man United never even tried to buy him.... which is not true. Van Gaal is known to have called Kroos to persuade him to join United once Real Madrid had offered him a deal, but Man United had not offered him an actual deal, they just wanted him to reject Real's generous offer while United pulled the finger out.

2. The most plausible, and the most reported, is that Man United couldn't agree on a fee for him for months. Seeing as though Bayern only wanted 20-25 million, as that what they sold him for, one has to say "WHAT THE HELL WERE UNITED DOING"

[ddb]

Sussexpob I've read a different version to that in which we had him done but Van Gaal said no.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ ... 19111.html

[ddb]

Moyes said United were close to Bale, Ronaldo and Cesc. Either he was smoking something which I think he is or Woodward cocked up not get at least Cesc done.

[SaintPowelly]

In theory, you'd think Bayern would sell to Man U cheaper than they would Madrid too, as they wont be CL rivals this season.

[ddb]

Think its very likely we see a deadline day panic from United.

[SaintPowelly]

Think its very likely we see a deadline day panic from United.

You can have Shane Long for 20mil.

[sussexpob]

Sussexpob I've read a different version to that in which we had him done but Van Gaal said no.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ ... 19111.html

Its unlikely that is true, and may have been the result of what was happening at Bayern at the time. The key is in the detail from my statement below.

Only speculation at this point is whether or not Bayern were prepared to sell Kroos, or force him to play out his contract and leave on a free. It is 100% clear after that he would leave, his agent, the player, the head of the board and CE had all said he wouldn't resign a deal, they were deadlocked, with the club not going to give.

At first, while Kroos had flirted with mentions of joining United and the Premier League, its unsure whether or not this was done to force Bayern's hand at a new deal. What is clear is that, by May when Van Gaal joined, the aforementioned reaction from Bayern's top powers was clear..... no improved contract. The player wanted more, the board were not prepared to pay him more, and had reacted scathingly in the German press. Beckenbaeur and Ruminigge had indicated they believed the contract was fair, and seemed shocked or angered he wouldn't sign it.

At this stage in the contract stalemate, its unclear whether or not Bayern were actively selling him to cash in, or whether or not they were keeping him in the hope he would sign the deal.... and in the opposite, whether or not Kroos would hold out through the season for an improved deal when it was clear he would leave at the end of free. Both parties at this point, around the time Van Gaal is supposed to have said " I don't want him", seem to have switched to the waiting game, and with the World Cup, the question of him leaving is left.

Yet after this, there is a clear shift towards Bayern deciding to sell him. Ruminigge and another board member, I cant remember his name, had come out in June to state that they would not be prepared to lose Kroos on a free, and that essentially they had tried their best with the player to convince him to stay, but it was unsuccessful. The statements were issued in a "sorry guys, but you wont see him here next year". I think this was 4-6 weeks before he left to Real Madrid. By mid July Madrid all of a Sudden placed a bid and looked set to buy him. Had Manchester United? In conclusion, they must have. It was widely reported that Kroos had spoken to Van Gaal after Real Madrid's bid to persuade him to come to United still, he wouldn't have done that if they were not in talks, and I don't think he would have been able to approach the player had Bayern not been aware.

What is clear again though is, around this time Kroos agent does tell us that, on being asked if Kroos is a Madrid player, he answered that the player needed time to discuss the options with him, and that it was not known where he would be playing. Just to make it more certain he was at least weighing up two different club options, Bayern again at this stage announced that Kroos would be leaving having not had more discussions on an improved contact, so we know Bayern were never one of those options.

Personally, I think what this shows is Bayern knew they would lose their man, and a sensible and direct bid at the end of May bought him the player, yet they stalled or did not bid high enough for Bayern to consider the player a lost cause. When Real Madrid came in for the player in July, by this stage after the World Cup, they knew they either had to pay him 300k a week or lose him on a free, and accepted the first bid that matched the valuation.

[Aidan11]

Di Maria move getting a bit closer

http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/19/angel-di- ... um=twitter

[ddb]

https://twitter.com/RedDevilTickets/sta ... 52/photo/1

[SaintPowelly]

Just heard a fantastic stat about Toni Kroos, in his last 10 games, he has lifted 4 trophies.

European Super Cup, World Cup, German Cup, Bundesliga...tonight he has chance to make it 5 in 11.

[dan08]

Just heard a fantastic stat about Toni Kroos, in his last 10 games, he has lifted 4 trophies.

European Super Cup, World Cup, German Cup, Bundesliga...tonight he has chance to make it 5 in 11.

The Spanish Super Cup is across two legs so he'd have to wait til Friday.

[yuppie]

https://twitter.com/RedDevilTickets/status/501747474307223552/photo/1

Thats a hell of alot of money to finish 7th.