English football 2023-24

[Durhamfootman]

I've seen few minutes of highlights now

Havertz foul was a shocker, but not enough contact for a red, for me. I have no idea what Bruno was up to... got away with that, I think, but he is suspended for Bournemouth after picking up yellow card one match ban. There were a few flash points in the game.... nobody seemed to be holding back

As for the goal, I'm happy with the 'offside' and the 'foul' I don't think either were from the bit I've seen. The ball not going out decision looks terrible from the TV angle, but it's not a definitive angle, for me. I recall an incident, but can't remember where or when exactly, might have been the world cup last winter or the women's Euro's, I can't remember, but there was a very similar incident where the TV angle made it look for all the world as though the ball had gone out of play and by quite a distance, but a better camera angle was dug out in the aftermath that showed that the whole of the ball had not gone out, there was a tiny bit of the ball on the line that the TV camera angle couldn't determine because of the curvature of the ball.

Now I have no idea whether VAR had a better angle than the TV, or whether they simply made an allowance for the curvature of the ball when determining that there was no clear and obvious error, but frankly I don't care. Arteta is one of those Klopp-lite managers who moan and winge and twist at every decision that they think somebody, somewhere got wrong, regardless of whether they did or didn't, so he can suck it up, for me. It's just a pity Newcastle didn't get a decision like that against Liverpool, because Klopp would have torn several more hamstrings in apoplectic rage, and I'd have laughed my c**k off at him. Seemingly at one point (with 53,000 fans screaming) one voice in the crowd boomed out at the 4th official that Arteta was constantly leaving his technical area (as he always does to berate somebody, somewhere) and demanding that the 4th official put a stop to it. Must have been one hell of a voice in that cauldren of noise, because the 4th official turned to where the voice came from and put his thumb up to let him know he was aware of it. I have no sympathy with the Arteta's (and Klopp's and Conte's) of this world. Most managers go on camera afterwards and offer a measured point of view. The Arteta's of this world, just rant and rage and call everyone a disgrace and an embarrassment.... poor me.......well sometimes these things happen... sometimes the ref plays 10 mins of the 5 mins added on until the favoured team scores a goal, sometimes goals get disallowed for a foul on the keeper when the only reason the foul took place was because the defender blatantly shoved the goalscorer in to the keeper as he was scoring the goal.... these decisions are as frustrating as hell, but sometimes a team just has to suck it up. I've lost count of the number of times that my teams have been the victims of outrageous decisions much more clear than the goal today

[sussexpob]

I agree on Havertz, its a yellow card. In real time when it happened, I thought it was a red, but that's because it looked like he lunged in and caught him with his outstretched leg, but he actually misses by a long way, and its the trailing leg that accidentally takes Gordon out. Although in the second half, Havertz had another clear yellow card and should have been sent off, but the ref gave only the foul.

I don't know why people are even debating the Bruno one. The rules are clear - touch the face = violent conduct = red card. No debate, he should have gone. And to be honest, he could have been sent off 3 times, I must have counted about 6 bookings he should of had.

Arsenal goal - As I said, take your pick. For me the ball is clearly out, Joelinton handballs it, Gordon is probably (cant tell) offside, and Gabriel is pushed over.... I agree with Arteta, its an embarrassing decision.

Burn was another who maybe got away with a few bookings. But in the context of a fiery match, can't complain too much about getting the benefit of the doubt.

The referee was pathetic all match, and lost control of the game early. Both sides got frustrated..... the standard of refereeing is rubbish

[sussexpob]

Another case in point.... the Sheffield United penalty decision was nonsense. Silva didn't touch him.....

[Durhamfootman]

I've watched the yellow card for Bruno and it was absolutley a yellow card because he wins the ball by shoving the Arsenal player in the chest to keep him away..... but here's the thing.... the Arsenal player (was it Jorghino again?) goes down clutching his face. Okay not in the same league as Rivellino, but sometimes the players don't help themselves or the officials and so it makes it that little bit harder to always blame the officials

I don't know if you noticed, but just before the Havertz wipe out of Longstaff, the ball went out of play for an Arsenal throw and Arteta ran right out of his area, to retrieve the ball and give it to his player to make it harder for the Newcastle players to get back to defend it. The 4th official was straight on him to order him back into his technical area, but he does this all the time, constantly, getting involved in the game in areas where he has no business being. He's so agitated and wound up throughout every game, that I genuinely fear he'll give himself a heart attack way before he's old enough to warrant one

I watched MOTD and seemingly it was the world cup where the ball didn't go out despite everyone seeing daylight between line and ball and curvature of the ball became a 'thing' to be considered. It was Japan v Spain. The technology seemingly isn't there yet to determine the Gordon offside that close to goal (I don't know why), but it just didn't look offside to me. I have no sympathy for a Joelinton foul because I think Gabrielli is bending to try and head the ball, so there's bags of doubt there. I do have some sympathy with a possible Joelinton handball, but maybe there was a deflection somewhere in all that mess that rules that out.... who knows

I do know that it is a goal and Arteta will just have to deal with that. Even Keown thinks that Arteta needs to think a bit more and compose himself before he shoots his mouth off. Keown thought it was handball, there you go...... clear and obvious should be the watchword and as far as I can tell there was nothing clear and obvious about almost every aspect of the goal

But hey....... how good were Newcastle tonight? Brilliant. They gave Arsenal nowt all night. Just a shame that they can't complete a game without losing another player to injury atm. Murphy came on and promptly put his shoulder out again and Burn landed heavily on his back and had to be taken off at half time..... bloody Dortmund on Tuesday. By the time the Bournemouth game comes around, Newcastle won't have any fit players left and might have to play the second string side that thumped Man Utd

[sussexpob]

I watched MOTD and seemingly it was the world cup where the ball didn't go out despite everyone seeing daylight between line and ball and curvature of the ball became a 'thing' to be considered

I really do not get this argument that seems to be all over the press. Since when has it been the role of the VAR operator to question the validity of the evidence put forward to him? The short answer is, never. The question is simple - on the available angle does the ball look out? Yes. Move on. No goal.

Allowing the VAR operative to engage in a completely pseudo-scientific tangent is beyond me. He has no idea if, and to what extent, the angle effects what he sees, so why should he question it? As much as the angle might make an illusion, it might also show the true picture - no one knows, so why are we even letting it be a consideration? Such an assessment would not be based on any scientific or analytical assessment, it would be simply trying to counter act an established reality with complete guesswork.

One thing I also really detest from arguments in the press, is the idea that it wasn't clear, so you go with the goal. We seem to have a reality now where linesman and referees continue playing on to encourage the flow of the game, and go back to VAR if something significant then happens. But in doing that, the burden of proof is always on the defensive side, because in playing on, regardless of what the refereeing team are thinking, it is assumed that not blowing for a foul or the ball being out was in itself a judgement from the referee.

So the question is, is it clearly not a goal? When the reality might be, the linesman and referee thought it was out of play or a foul, therefore it should be "is it clearly a goal"..... its amazing that the soft signal has not been used by referees. They really should introduce something were a referee/linesman signals they think something has happened but play continues. That then sets the standard.

[Durhamfootman]

well the ref gave it as a goal, so the onus is on VAR to definitively come up with a reason to overturn it. That's the way I see it

[mikesiva]

Luton 1-1 Liverpool

Diaz comes off the bench to score, after all he's through.

[Durhamfootman]

yes, well done to him

just as well really or Klopp would have demanded that the match got replayed, for not being a given a penalty before the Luton goal. I note that the ref gave Liverpool an extra couple of minutes over and above the indicated added time on the off chance that Liverpool might snatch a win, but quickly blew up when Luton nearly got the winner instead

Forest beat Villa 2-0, so both results help Newcastle a bit

[mikesiva]

When the smoke cleared after the Battle of London, Tottenham were down to nine men, and Chelsea won 4-1.

[Durhamfootman]

An extraordinary match, by the looks of it


Shearer reminding everyone of Arteta's comments after the VAR howler in Liverpool Spurs

We have to remember that officials are human, humans make mistakes and need our support...... or words to that effect

[Durhamfootman]

The PL's key match incident panel met today and agreed that the correct decision was reached for the Gordon goal on Saturday, despite Arteta's post match and subsequent petulance.

I'd never heard of them, but seemingly the panel consists of a representative from both the PL and PGMOL, plus 3 former players and/or coaches. They ruled that VAR was correct not to overturn the goal and further noted that Gabriel was already going down to play the ball when Joelinton made contact with him and agreed with the ref's decision not to award a foul

They did however decide that Havertz should have received a red card for his challenge on Longstaff and Guimaraes for his elbow of Jorginho

Arteta and Arsenal have been invited to give 'their observations' over Arteta's comments to the FA

[Durhamfootman]

Maddison is out injured until at least the new year for Spurs. He'll be a miss for them, I think

[Durhamfootman]

I knew Newcastle were going to lose tonight the moment I saw the team sheet. No striker, so we had to use a winger as a makeshift CF, but we only have 2 fit wingers, so a centre mid had to move to winger. Both holding mids are out suspended so we had a 17 year old filling in that role. Both recognised left backs are out injured, so 3rd choice Lewis Hall got a start. 10 of the 25 man squad are either injured or suspended and the only reason Hall and Miley (both will be good players in the future) are even in the squad is because they are young enough not to have to be included in the 25 man squad to be eligible to play.

I think I'd have been tempted to leave Gordon as one of the two genuine wingers and push Joelinton up as the lone striker, but it wouldn't have made a difference in the end because Almiron went off injured in the first half anyway.

Thank goodness it's the international break now. At least it gives Newcastle the chance to get a couple of players back. Isak and Barnes are expected back shortly and we need every player we can get back in the starting XI, because it's full of holes atm. A real sticking plaster match day squad

[sussexpob]

Newcastle could have easily conceded a few more goals, was a terrible performance, but understandable for the reasons mentioned. As much of a problem as the injuries, it means those fit who usually start cant get any rest. Trippier looked knackered second half, as did a couple of others.

The one positive for Newcastle this week has been Livramento.... was absolutely brilliant at Dortmund. Looks a top prospect

[Durhamfootman]

yes he does. He started in both league cup matches against the Manchesters and came away with POTM in both