UEFA Champions League Continued 2015/16

[yuppie]

Not really relevant to this discussion but since Pep Guardiola started managing in 2008/09, all the Champions League winners are either his team or the team that beat them.

He did take over the best champions league winners I have seen.

Unlucky this year in Europe with Injuries.

The year Pep took over Bayern did buy his opponents best players in the Bundesliga as well.

Since Heynckes triple in 12/13,

Pep has won 2 trophies in 13/14

And 1 trophy in 14/15.

Maybe next year Peps plan will work. But he did leave the best team in the world and then walked into what should have been the next dominant team.

So far Bayern have not been as dominant as they were under Heynckes.

[Aidan11]

Barcelona to win 3-1 for me.

I wish I'd had money on that.

[dan08]

Not really relevant to this discussion but since Pep Guardiola started managing in 2008/09, all the Champions League winners are either his team or the team that beat them.

Pep has won 2 trophies in 13/14

And 1 trophy in 14/15.

Maybe next year Peps plan will work. But he did leave the best team in the world and then walked into what should have been the next dominant team.

So far Bayern have not been as dominant as they were under Heynckes.

That's true. In Pep's first year at Bayern, he clearly got it wrong in that Champions League match against Real Madrid. He adapted his system this year and it was working much better until the injuries. Without his star players (or even with them), they were never going to beat Barca. And then in the German Cup, Bayern missed all 4 penalties in the semi-final penalty shoot-out which must be some kind of record. It's impossible for him to do as well as he did at Barca or even as well as Heynckes (how can you top a treble?). It must be difficult to motivate the players too. With Dortmund falling away, Bayern have no competition in the league. So they've basically got a load of warm ups until the Champions League matches which only come around every few weeks/months. I think Bayern are probably still top 3 in Europe although not as dominant as they possibly could have been.

This is a great piece on the subject which explains it much better than i could do: http://www.espnfc.com/club/bayern-munic ... st/2446939

[yuppie]

I guess a lot will depend on what Bayern do next season on how we judge Pep. At domestic level Bayern seem to have the ability to weaken their opponents by taking their strongest players. Maybe they are reaping what they sow in the same way Celtic and Rangers have in Scotland.

If Pep does not deliver, i wonder how Bayern will view the idea of getting rid of a coach that won the triple?

Not even Real are that hard on their managers.

[dan08]

I guess a lot will depend on what Bayern do next season on how we judge Pep. At domestic level Bayern seem to have the ability to weaken their opponents by taking their strongest players. Maybe they are reaping what they sow in the same way Celtic and Rangers have in Scotland.

If Pep does not deliver, i wonder how Bayern will view the idea of getting rid of a coach that won the triple?

Not even Real are that hard on their managers.

Luis Enrique isn't 100% sure he'll keep his job next season... Everyone expects him to get another contract but he hasn't been offered one yet and always avoids questions about next season. I'm sure it will be sorted out eventually though.

[yuppie]

I guess a lot will depend on what Bayern do next season on how we judge Pep. At domestic level Bayern seem to have the ability to weaken their opponents by taking their strongest players. Maybe they are reaping what they sow in the same way Celtic and Rangers have in Scotland.

If Pep does not deliver, i wonder how Bayern will view the idea of getting rid of a coach that won the triple?

Not even Real are that hard on their managers.

Luis Enrique isn't 100% sure he'll keep his job next season... Everyone expects him to get another contract but he hasn't been offered one yet and always avoids questions about next season. I'm sure it will be sorted out eventually though.

Makes you wonder what is expected every season by some of these clubs.

[sussexpob]

It was only 2-3 years ago that we were hearing "The German League this, the German League that"..... so Pep wins the league in February twice in a row and now its not an achievement?

I dont get this criticism, they got beat in the semi finals last year by a Real Madrid team that spend 200 million Euros on transfers, and this year lost to arguably the best team in European footballs history with half a squad!!! They also lost the German cup this year with half a squad!

Pep has only spent about £15 million net spend, so its hardly like his Bayern team compete even with the spending of UEFA Cup English teams.....

And Heyncks had this team at their peak..... Ribery is nearly 33, Robben is 31 and has a long injury past so he cant have much left, Schweinsteiger has undergone career saving surgery, Lahm is 31

Until he stops winning the league, people should start being realistic. He needs 200 million for this team to compete with Barcelona in the coming years.

[sussexpob]

And to say that other teams in Germany didnt spend would be wrong. Dortmund spent 60-70 million Euros this year, Leverkusen spent half that, and Wolfsburg spent 30-40 million.... There are teams spending more money in Germany.

If anything, it seems Bayern have a rather heightened opinion of themselves and see themselves not needing to invest. Football isnt like that, without new blood and replacing the players you lose, you fall quickly. With some of their players arguably hitting the point in their career where they are no longer expected to play at the highese level, you either replace them or fall away from the top.

I think, tbh, that Pep will walk at about the time he realises that this squad is crumbling and it will make him look very good. I cant see Bayern spending huge amounts of money, it is about the time they did so.

[yuppie]

It was only 2-3 years ago that we were hearing "The German League this, the German League that"..... so Pep wins the league in February twice in a row and now its not an achievement?

I dont get this criticism, they got beat in the semi finals last year by a Real Madrid team that spend 200 million Euros on transfers, and this year lost to arguably the best team in European footballs history with half a squad!!! They also lost the German cup this year with half a squad!

Pep has only spent about £15 million net spend, so its hardly like his Bayern team compete even with the spending of UEFA Cup English teams.....

And Heyncks had this team at their peak..... Ribery is nearly 33, Robben is 31 and has a long injury past so he cant have much left, Schweinsteiger has undergone career saving surgery, Lahm is 31

Until he stops winning the league, people should start being realistic. He needs 200 million for this team to compete with Barcelona in the coming years.

So what your saying SP is that so far Pep can not rebuild a team when required?

[dan08]

Pretty sure Pep will leave at the end of next season when his contract ends.

[yuppie]

Pretty sure Pep will leave at the end of next season when his contract ends.

And go where? Replace Arsene?

[dan08]

Pretty sure Pep will leave at the end of next season when his contract ends.

And go where? Replace Arsene?

Man City is most likely. They have been wanting him for years. Their director of football and chief executive are from Barca when Pep was managing there.

[sussexpob]

So what your saying SP is that so far Pep can not rebuild a team when required?

No, what I am saying is people need to appreciate how tough Pep's job at Bayern is, I would say its the toughest job in Europe without a doubt because expectations are so unrealistically high, but unduly so.

You look at this Bayern team and can ring off names in a starting squad that forms an amazing team, but look deeper and there isn't much there. Ribery, for instance, hasn’t really contributed towards a full season since 2011-12 due to injuries, and for a player so based on pace I doubt his latest nasty injury will mean at his age he ever returns as good. Robben has missed at least 10 league games in every one of his 6 years at Bayern, this year he missed half (although scored 17 goals in 21 games he played). He is another player who’s pace is starting to disappear and his abdominal injury record in his career is clearly catching up with him, so in real terms his 31 going on 32 is probably 34 going on 35. Schweinsteiger hasn’t played a full season since 2010-11, and his last injury is accepted to have nearly ended his career. Javi Martinez tore his knee ligaments and missed virtually all of last season, Lahm has been injured and his loss of pace means they have had to transform him from a fullback to a central midfielder.

Even spending Real Madrid type money isnt going to replace 5 of the best players of their generation all at once, and in terms of wages, how do you sign quality players when you still have guys like Robben on the books not playing?

In order to rebuild, Pep needs to have the club acknowledge their position. I mean, its clear that Toni Kroos was flogged off because the board room level staff seemed to indicate that he was surplus to requirements despite being the youngest of the teams established stars. In fairness, they would have been better to rid the squad of an older star and keep a 25 year old then flog off one of the best midfielders in the world because they couldn't pay him 80k a week. It was sheer madness, and I think Guardiola was on record that he was desperate to keep Kroos.

Guardiola needs money. Bayern need a blowout transfer couple of years to rebuild. At the moment though the club still seems to think an ageing and injury prone squad are as good as their rivals, but we seen how the business end of the cup season fared when injuries of all these guys came at once...

[Gingerfinch]

Heard it was a good game, won by the best team? Sounds perfect.

[sussexpob]

For the record though, if Guardiola has one noticeable weakness, it is the fact that he seems to favour (a) Building youth players through the system to make up squad depth (b) Play with a tiny core squad.

While point (a) can be good, towards the latter end of his Barcelona career it was pretty obvious that there were kids playing regularly in a team that were not to standard and who have since moved on to worse clubs. Someone like Isaac Cuenca for instance is now playing at a low division team yet was playing in important games for Pep, and that contributed to Barcelona being underwhelming for a while.

Also, its interesting how much the injuries maybe down to Pep. He flogged a lot of guys into the ground at Barcelona, and he NEVER rotates his squad. I remember a Copa del Ray game 4 days before a major Champions League game, Barcelona had won the first leg 5-0, yet he played the full team for 90 minutes.