Racism in English football?

[Gingerfinch]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19989136

[sussexpob]

Irony? Who's said all Slavic people are racists? Me and other want the team banned whilst some don't.

Did banning teams after Heysel stop hooligans? Did it stop people dying in English football grounds after that? Absolutely not, people went on being hurt and dying until someone actually rolled up their sleeves and started to do something about it legislatively.... it took laws to be passed and arguably an economic cleansing of certain sections of fans before it died out.

And fyi, Serbian teams have been banned before very recently. In 2008 Partizan Belgrade and other Serbian teams were kicked out of the UEFA cup after their first round knockout game descended into an enmass war in the stands.

The interesting thing was that UEFA seemingly ignored the fact that the game, played vs Moster in Bosnia, was never EVER going to be about football. As far as I am aware it was the first time that a Bozniak team had met a Serbian team since the two countries had fought civil war, the politics behind the game were nothing about football, and there was evidence that it was in fact Bosnian Serb fans who had travelled from the Republic of Srpska(NOT SERBIA!!!) with the sole intention of using the football match as a forum for political scores to be settled by violence, not to go to support Partizan.

I mean, its interesting to find out exactly what the Serbian FA or government could have done. They couldnt prevent people travelling because the Republic of Srpska is in Bosnia, NOT SERBIA!!,They couldnt issue any warnings or decree's on fans because again, you really think a Serbian Government telling Bosnia citizen's what to do would sit well with the Bosnia government? Or the UN or NATO who have aireally bombed Belgrade last time they tried to interfere with the self autonomy and government of one of its former components... and the simple "united effort to stop it" would constitutionally work, dont blame the governments, blame the international communities resolution in the Dayton Agreement and the constitutional agreements it created.

[Gingerfinch]

Irony? Who's said all Slavic people are racists? Me and other want the team banned whilst some don't.

Did banning teams after Heysel stop hooligans? Did it stop people dying in English football grounds after that? Absolutely not, people went on being hurt and dying until someone actually rolled up their sleeves and started to do something about it legislatively.... it took laws to be passed and arguably an economic cleansing of certain sections of fans before it died out.

And fyi, Serbian teams have been banned before very recently. In 2008 Partizan Belgrade and other Serbian teams were kicked out of the UEFA cup after their first round knockout game descended into an enmass war in the stands.

The interesting thing was that UEFA seemingly ignored the fact that the game, played vs Moster in Bosnia, was never EVER going to be about football. As far as I am aware it was the first time that a Bozniak team had met a Serbian team since the two countries had fought civil war, the politics behind the game were nothing about football, and there was evidence that it was in fact Bosnian Serb fans who had travelled from the Republic of Srpska(NOT SERBIA!!!) with the sole intention of using the football match as a forum for political scores to be settled by violence, not to go to support Partizan.

I mean, its interesting to find out exactly what the Serbian FA or government could have done. They couldnt prevent people travelling because the Republic of Srpska is in Bosnia, NOT SERBIA!!,They couldnt issue any warnings or decree's on fans because again, you really think a Serbian Government telling Bosnia citizen's what to do would sit well with the Bosnia government? Or the UN or NATO who have aireally bombed Belgrade last time they tried to interfere with the self autonomy and government of one of its former components... and the simple "united effort to stop it" would constitutionally work, dont blame the governments, blame the international communities resolution in the Dayton Agreement and the constitutional agreements it created.

Who's died because of hooligans since? The 70's and early 80's were not great times to be a fan travelling to a game but since then, it has got better, so maybe the ban has helped.

[rich1uk]

the ban forced clubs and the football authorities to do things like cc tv , take harder action against football hooligans , better stewarding and security as well as encouraging other innocent fans to point out troublemakers etc etc

token fines against clubs and/or national boards aint gonna force them to do anything

[sussexpob]

i suppose all the drama and reports that plagued the euros this summer were just made up as well

I once was in China watching a BBC documentary posted on my friends facebook that said that the Chinese government blocked access to facebook and the BBC.... I found that really amusing, and rather proves exactly how open and biased the media in the west can be. People eat it all up without thinking about the validity of the source material or just how reliable it is.If you took a snapshot of any country and looked hard enough, you could find enough evidence to prove racism was endemic in any society.

I could film, for instance, film and show a piece about the England captain being charged with racism... hunt down a few Arsenal fans who might say some anti semitic things about Tottenham fans, film for months on end at football matches until I get someone making monkey noises or racist salutes, and then package it up as "this is English football".

The media can be twisted to show what it wants.

[rich1uk]

no-ones condoning what happens in english football but denying that there is a much more serious problem in football grounds in eastern europe and that nothing should be done to try and resolve it solves what exactly ?

did you watch the game live on ESPN the other day and see the crowd throwing things at players and officials , did you see the amount of abuse, some of it quite obviously racist in nature being directed at the players ?

or was all that just made up as well ?

there have been far too many and consistent incidents to write it off in the way you are and tbh i dont even understand why you are seemingly defending something that to me seems indefensible

[Kim]

In 2007 Serbia were fined £16,000 by UEFA for racial abuse. Early last year, Platini warned Serbia and its clubs that a ban on competing could be imposed if fans continued to cause trouble.

Enough is enough.

The Heysel Ban didnt stop hooliganism - though I struggle to remember a major indident since - but it stopped others having to put up with our exported hooliganism. A ban for Serbia would stop other teams having to put up with the shite their fans dished out the other night.

A game or so behind closed doors punishes everybody - and may encourage more of the problem Serbians to travel away to get their football fix.

[Gingerfinch]

In 2007 Serbia were fined £16,000 by UEFA for racial abuse. Early last year, Platini warned Serbia and its clubs that a ban on competing could be imposed if fans continued to cause trouble.

Enough is enough.

The Heysel Ban didnt stop hooliganism - though I struggle to remember a major indident since - but it stopped others having to put up with our exported hooliganism. A ban for Serbia would stop other teams having to put up with the shite their fans dished out the other night.

Good point, kim

[sussexpob]

The Heysel Ban didnt stop hooliganism - though I struggle to remember a major indident since - but it stopped others having to put up with our exported hooliganism. A ban for Serbia would stop other teams having to put up with the shite their fans dished out the other night

Didnt England nearly get kicked out of Euro 2000 for the Charleroi roit? Im sure UEFA threatened action unless the violence stopped.
Werent they also fined heavily for a riot after being knocked out in 1996? I am pretty sure some poor Italian bloke was stabbed to death in Brighton after the game because some yobs thought he was German also.
200 arrests and 400 people taken off the streets as a preventative measure after fighting broke out in Germany 2006???
Was it Sardinia that England fans tore up in 1990 or Sicily?
Anyone remember Arsenal and Galatasary fans destroying the main square in Copenhagen?
Didnt three Liverpool fans get arrested for killing someone after the Champions League final? Pretty sure one got life in prison for it.
Didnt Manchester United get involved in riots in Roma and Lille in the same Champions League year?

Are these not major incidents?

And didnt the Taylor report after Hillbrough damn all the government suggestions that were made regarding hooligans and crowd control?? Im pretty sure the Football Spectators Act released had no relevance to Heysel and was more brought forward by Hillsbrough.

[rich1uk]

so your argument atm seems to be two wrongs make a right ?

[sussexpob]

so your argument atm seems to be two wrongs make a right ?

Not at all, I just take offence at your suggestion that this is a Eastern European thing, and I am merely trying to demonstrate before you start going off on Serbia that if you look indepth at the problem, its actually a horrifically widespread occurance in all of Europe, and in England recently we have seen problems with the issues of racism in football that goes all the way to the eventually resignation of our national coach and seeing our Captain charged in court admitting he used racist language!!!

Scandinavia has a big problem with Hooligans, Belguim/France/Italy are all struggling with it, in fact France had Sarkosy and Chirac before him both try and force new anti hooligan measures into the country when it started to spiral out of control... Italy got very bad in the not so distant past ( I remember Fabio Liverani leaving Lazio because of a banner from his own fans that read "your home belongs in the gashouses of Auschwitz, or words to that effect, when they found out he had Jewish heritage).... Rapid Wien and Austria Wien ultras are animals, even hooligans are starting to plague Swiss football(the ever Neutral country of Europe).

I also think that generally people dont understand the social enviroment it is created by or operates in, and simply saying ban the club does nothing to help, in fact I would argue it can make it worse.

[rich1uk]

where have i said this is a problem that only affects eastern europe ?

i said it is a widespread problem in eastern europe and the sheer volume of incidences of racist behaviour across a number of countries supports that and that something more than handing out token fines is going to solve it

[rich1uk]

i did use the word endemic which may have suggested i meant it was localised to a certain geographical area , but that was not my intent

depends if you look at its literal meaning or how it is applied to behaviour or disease

[Gingerfinch]

sussex

What would you do?

[mikesiva]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19989136

"I want to apologise to everyone for the language I used in the game."

If he'd said this from the very beginning, everything could've been so different....